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Comment by nrivadeneira | Hacker News Reader

I find that a hardcore workout works even better than alcohol. Not only do you get the same winding down effect in a short period of time (assuming you're really killing yourself and working to exhaustion in the gym), but you get a lot of additional benefits along with it: better focus, improved health, boosted confidence, and improved body composition. You wake up the next morning feeling a lot better about yourself. My experience with alcohol is often the opposite.

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> working to exhaustion in the gym

I don't disagree, but when I've tried this I just find myself doubly exhausted: once (mentally) from the work, and again (physically) from the gym. Still agree that making time for the gym is really important though. But for me, it's not the answer to mental exhaustion but rather just part of a healthy lifestyle generally (personally, proper sleep hygiene is the only solution I've found to mental exhaustion and overwork).

I certainly agree with your comment about sleep. For me, I generally lump sleep in with my exercise because I've been strict about getting a minimum of 7 hours of preferably uninterrupted sleep in order to maximize recovery from exertion. The sleep and exercise combined work wonders to clear out the stress of the day. And while I feel exhausted after a workout, it's more of a calm, peaceful, and cleansing exhaustion.

>>I don't disagree, but when I've tried this I just find myself doubly exhausted: once (mentally) from the work, and again (physically) from the gym.

When you walk into the gym you need to stop thinking about work and start focusing on your workout. For me, this comes in the form of planning which exercises I'll be doing, how much weight I lifted the previous time for how many reps, and how much I can increment it. And then during the lifts, I focus on the mind-muscle connection to make sure my form is correct and I'm activating the right muscles.

Trust me, when you do it like this, it's incredibly relaxing from a mental perspective. I actually look at my gym sessions as meditation time.

I have pretty much the same mentality and I Have to agree that it just works. It doesn't matter what I have on my mind before going to the gym as it is soon replaced by "I have to squat 2.5kg more than the last time?!".

I would hazard that you are coming to this from a relatively sedentary point of view. Often overlooked is the huge hump to get over before exercise starts showing it's benefits. It can take months if you do not have the strength it takes to work out effectively, or are performing less than optimal exercise routine, such as one focused on cardio.

A less than optimal exercise routine is entirely possible. Do you have any tips? Bad technique or not enough variety is certainly a concern, especially when working out on your own. The trouble is, when I try to find alternatives, they usually seem to require a significant time and/or money investment which I can't do right now (e.g. getting a personal trainer, or adhering to strict regimes). If there any any simpler resources out there I'd be happy to hear about them.

I have gone for half a year or longer exercising on average 5 times a week, sometimes more. Excercise is often physically draining for me afterwards. My experience is opposite of it taking a "long time to [feel?] benefits": it just takes 10 pushups to a 7 minute circuit workout for me to feel great and invigorated. A longer workout often leaves me feeling drained in the hours after. My circulatory system might feel much better, but my body feels tired.

Not all exercise sessions are made equal. If you're just doing 10 pushups or 7 minute circuits for 6 months, you're still very much in the beginner phase.

It took me a few years of consistent intense training to really get into the groove of things. I've been at it for about 9 years now. This is the intensity that I aim for (mind you, this is not me in the video): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LAhNyvTF5Uw

After that level of intensity on a consistent basis for a few years, you adapt to it. While you may feel tired, you gain energy from it as well.

I did much more than 10 push-ups or 7 min circuit training each session for those six months (and those six months isn't the only time I've exercised, just one of the longer uninterrupted streaks of it). Don't patronize me.

Not trying to patronize you at all, and I apologize if it came off that way. I'd say that most people in the tech/hacker community aren't too well acquainted with consistent, dedicated exercise. It wouldn't be unreasonable for someone to have the belief that after 6 months of 7 minute circuits, their body should be well adapted to intense workouts. Since I don't know who you are or where you stand on the experience spectrum, I took an educated guess, and apparently was wrong.

Definitely - I've started practicing aikido 3 times a week, for at least an hour each time I go (I worked my way up to it). I usually go to the dojo for 2 1/2 hours, but not always. It's done more for my physical and mental well-being than any other type of exercise. Practicing Qi Gong in the mornings before leaving the house has also helped.

Generally speaking, I think practicing martial arts is a good thing for technical people to do. It gets you out of your head and into a feeling space. And, there are many interesting parallels between the learning process in martial arts and in programming.

That's exactly how I feel about powerlifting. Once you get to a certain level, the attention to detail, specificity, and focus you need to progress are great analogues to other areas such as programming or entrepreneurship. It's become my personal meditation time where I disconnect from everything else and focus intensely on optimization and improvement.

If anyone is interested, this book has given me a vastly different perspective on things like exercise (or in parent's case, martial arts): http://www.amazon.com/Mastery-Keys-Success-Long-Term-Fulfill... When put in that perspective, I think exercise would greatly appeal to most hackers.

I want to tack on cycling to this. I can't count the number of times I've wanted to solve all of the world's problems at the beginning of a bike ride. And the result is always the same. The primary problem that I end up solving is 'how the hell do I move myself over the next 60+ miles without blowing up and getting dropped by the pack.' And not falling - not falling is key. Dodging cars, cyclists, potholes, cracks, animals, gravel, basically anything that can ruin your ride, becomes a major focus. Then after you finish the ride, you are on a physical high from the exertion and a mental high from getting to take a break from your petty little problems.

Man I want to go ride now...

Having your first kid does too. Of course, you may feel like you REALLY need to unwind when there's a screaming baby taking up all your awake time, but, one thing about being a (responsible) parent is that you always have to be 'on' - meaning you gotta get up reliably when it's time for feeding, routines, and making sure the baby doesn't harm themselves when they're awake. No time for booze, mate!

I started working out daily last year and almost immediately noticed a marked reduction in my tolerance for alcohol. A couple of drinks and I'm done---any more and I start feeling hung over before I've even gone to bed. Has anyone else experienced this after taking up a regular exercise schedule?

Yes, definitely - I could be wrong, but I've been told that when you're healthier, your body metabolizes things faster & more efficiently. So stuff like alcohol or caffeine will hit you harder and faster too (all the more reason, right?).

For myself, I've noticed that after getting healthier, just one cup of coffee a day keeps me plenty productive. I might have a cup of tea in the afternoon. But it's a far cry from my previous 3-cups-a-day habit.

> when you're healthier, your body metabolizes things faster & more efficiently. So stuff like alcohol or caffeine will hit you harder and faster

What you are saying does not make any sense. If it did boost your body metabolism, then your enzymes should be working faster at breaking down alcohol.

People that are fit tend to have a higher tolerance towards alcohol.

I'm in pretty good shape and alcohol always makes me tired, no matter what time of day I drink it. So I avoid drinking it, which probably contributes to these symptoms in the first place. I'm not sure if they originate from the exercise but that's an interesting observation.

I was going to mention the same thing. Replace the after work drink with an intense workout and it does wonders.

I can second this. Working out at Gym, lifting heavy weights not only givens you that winding down effect but has a positive impact on productivity as well.

Using hardcore workouts as a stress coping tool is not much different from having a drink or two. You're not really addressing the source of stress.

Working out hard is additional stress. It boosts cortisol just like job stress. Stress depletes magnesium, and so does hard exercise. You will be hurting your health, not helping it, if you're stressed out and then do crossfit type stuff. That you can't train hard and endure other forms of stress is well known among athletes.

I exercise often and hard because I'm vain, but the health benefits of exercise are way oversold in my opinion. The pyramid of good health is 60% diet, 20% sleep quality and stress, 10% social and spiritual life, and then at most 10% exercise.

Interesting take. The missus often reminds me that the body does well to have a little time out from alcohol. At least a couple of days off between drinks. Which could allow for weekend and mid week drinking or some variant. It's easier said than done though.

For me I'm really crap at switching off from work, and I can easily torture myself at the thought that I should be working. However when I drink, I pretty much say to myself - that's enough. And likewise if I'm on my bike.

So when I'm not drinking or not exercising, I'm not relaxing, and that's just a recipe for disaster for me - the knock on effect is that my programming really suffers. I find it a very difficult cycle to break away from, despite there being a simple solution.

At least you might be giving your brain time to breathe when you are exercising.

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