Ask HN: Options to work in the US if you're a foreigner | Hacker News Reader

Ask HN: Options to work in the US if you're a foreigner

9 pointswinter_blue9 comments

What are the options available to someone who's not a US Citizen or Greencard holder, to work in the US?

I'm a graduate of a fairly highly-ranked U.S. university, but left after graduation. (Could not do OPT for certain reasons.) I have B.S. in CS.

What options do I (and other non-US persons in general) have to migrate and legally work in the US?

I'm doing consulting remotely at the moment, but would really like to come back.

I know there's the H-1B, but it's got a stupid limit of 65k which ends up mostly being used by a bunch of IT bodyshops; and to top it off, it's only available starting October next year. (Too long a wait for me.)

Are there any other visas / means by which a skilled worker (such as myself) could work in the US?

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In general you'll want to find the job first and then have them on board for getting you through immigration. There are numerous other options: O-1 ("Individuals with Extraordinary Ability or Achievement") is common in our industry. Immigration attorneys practicing in Silicon Valley are quite familiar indeed with how to match up the realities of the tech industry with the state machine set up by Congress to grant O-1 visas.

Also ask about EB-1 and EB-2.

[Edit: I am not an immigration attorney, and have more practical experience with Japan's immigration bureaucracy than with the US', but I have some aging professional experience with helping engineers and assorted technologists navigate the process because it was once very relevant to my day job.]

patio11, it's a honor to get a reply from you!

Japan is a place I'd be very interested in emigrating to. I'm from India. How hard is it to move to Japan? Do you think Japanese people would be friendly to Indians?

FYI I watch a lot of anime and read a fair bit of manga now and then. As such, I have a certain affection for Japanese culture in my heart -- which is sort of is why I want to live there.

Above and beyond, how easy is it to set up a startup or a consultancy (like yours) in Japan? A lot of countries have provisions for work visas, but sponsoring yourself (as in a startup), seems to be impossible for most countries.

How hard is it to move to Japan? Do you think Japanese people would be friendly to Indians?

It is not very difficult to move to Japan, provided that you have lined up a job with a Japanese employer. Many Japanese multinationals employ substantial numbers of Indian engineers. I won't lie to you, though, finding a position at one starting in India is tricky unless you first work for a firm that the multinational has a pre-existing business relationship with. I won't say "Can't be done" but tricky.

Japanese people are, like Americans and Indians, all over the map. We were able to insulate the 5 Indian employees of my previous Japanese employer from most casual racism. This was largely due to having several decisionmakers at a large multinational who credibly promised to bring that multinational's substantial socioeconomic power to bear on anyone who felt that our employees should not be treated like our employees.

A lot of countries have provisions for work visas, but sponsoring yourself (as in a startup), seems to be impossible for most countries.

In Japan, status of residence (what you'd think of as a visa) follow people rather than following jobs. I have a status of residence gained as an employee of the aforementioned megacorp. Keeping my status of residence just requires that I file some paperwork every few years. I won't lie, Kalzumeus Software (my company) had a much more difficult go of it than the megacorp did, but I was able to successfully convince the relevant authorities that my consultancy was sufficiently established to hit all the requirements of Japanese immigration law.

(I've since gotten married to a Japanese woman, which will make things a bit more straightforward after I switch to a spousal status of residence, although I haven't bothered to do that paperwork yet.)

FYI I watch a lot of anime and read a fair bit of manga now and then.

A word to the wise: this is not something which I would suggest dwelling much upon in professional, legal, or administrative contexts.

Thanks for the reply, Patrick!

It is not very difficult to move to Japan, provided that you have lined up a job with a Japanese employer.

Sounds like I could work in Japan as long as I have a job lined up -- which is much better than the situation in the US. I have no problems finding work in the US, it's just that the lack of H-1Bs mean that employers have no way of bringing me over. I wish US immigration law was a bit more open.

I've heard of the EB-1/EB-2 in the past, but I thought you had to be in the country (on an H-1 or L-1 or something) to apply for it. Either way, aren't those supposed to have really long wait times (in the order of years), in addition to having strenuous requirements (like labor certification, etc.) As a recent graduate, I don't know if I could satisfy all of those.

On the pro side, I wasn't born in India so it should be a bit easier to get for me. (I've practically never even lived in the country for most of life until recently.) From what I've heard, they restrict these EB visas on a country-of-birth basis, and people from India and China have to wait for several years to get an EB approved.

We were able to insulate the 5 Indian employees of my previous Japanese employer from most casual racism.

I never experienced any racism (as strange as it may sound), during my undergraduate years in the US. Maybe I was just oblivious to it, but to be honest, everyone in the US just seemed nice and friendly to me. FYI I was in NYC area -- perhaps that's got something to do with it.

In Japan, status of residence (what you'd think of as a visa) follow people rather than following jobs.

This sounds wonderful. Does this mean that even if you loose your job, you can stick around a bit longer (and not get immediately kicked out of the country as you would have in the US) ?

Being able to do a startup would be awesome as well. A friend of mine (who's a US citizen) and I have been thinking of starting an indie game startup. Would a low initial revenue rule out startups? Based on your blog, I assume Kalzumeus had a pretty strong cash in-flow record. Would an indie game startup with zero or very-low income satisfy the Japanese immigration authorities?

Does this mean that even if you lose your job, you can stick around a bit longer (and not get immediately kicked out of the country as you would have in the US)?

After your paperwork gets stamped, your legal ability to live and work in Japan is mostly disconnected from the employer whose name was originally on your paperwork. You can switch between employers with the same degree of freedom accorded to Japanese citizens provided that any job which you take falls under the same status of residence. (e.g. I'm an engineer, so getting other jobs as an engineer is easy, but getting a job as e.g. a translator would require changing status of residence. That's a much more difficult paperwork burden than simply telling the government "BTW, my employer of record has changed.")

In my case, the day after I quit the megacorp I went to the local tax office, informed them of my intention to file taxes as a self-employed individual the following year, then walked to City Hall and had them update my foreigner registration to reflect "my new employer." They were amused that I was quite on top of things.

Would an indie game startup with zero or very-low income satisfy the Japanese immigration authorities?

Again, there is no question of satisfying them until you come to your every-3-year renewal. (You're not thinking of having the startup attempt to sponsor you for your initial status of residence, right? If you were... that would be a bit of a reach, absent a strong endorsement from the president of Toyota or the Emperor, or maybe both.)

If you can't come up with contracts, tax payments, and the like attesting to "a reasonable" amount of income at renewal time, expect your application for renewal to be denied. Clerks have a wide degree of flexibility in what "a reasonable" amount constitutes: it has been quoted to me as "at least that of an average Japanese citizen", "at least that of an average Japanese citizen involved in your line of work", "3 million yen a year", and "sufficient that you not become a burden on the public purse."

On a totally separate note:

1) Running a business is hard

2) Making video games for money is hard

3) Self-sponsoring a visa is hard

I strongly suggest you not attempt the trifecta at once.

Thanks for the all the answer, Patrick!

FYI Dubai _actually_ allows you to set up a company there (like a startup) and issues visas for yourself.[1] The company doesn't have to generate any revenue. In addition, there's no tax (corporate or personal) in Dubai, and the UAE in general.

It's a good option to consider if you want to live in a modern city without taxes (it comes with its own catches though).

[1] You generally apply through a free zone authority (e.g. DTMFZA). They require you to rent an office, and pay a license -- which can be expensive. But there are multiple free zone authorities in each emirate, and you it's possible to find cheap ways to set up a company & issue visas. The cheapest I've found is with the RAK free zone authority:

* The company license + rent = $5000 per year. You don't actually rent an office, but rather get access to a nice office for a few hours a week. This is useful if you want to meet clients in a nice setting (outside your home).

* A work visa - valid for 3 years, costs $2000. That's a recurring $2000 every three years.

Overall, it's a good deal due to the absolute lack of taxes. I haven't heard of a lot of startups in the Dubai area though.

It's a good option to consider if you want to live in a modern city without taxes (it comes with its own catches though).

It's not modern in many regards though. Homosexuality is illegal. Sex outside of marriage is illegal (if you get raped and report it to the police, you can be arrested & tried for having sex outside of marriage, if you kiss your different-sex-date in public, you can be arrested and fined). Alcohol is very legally restricted. etc.

I haven't heard of a lot of startups in the Dubai area though.

The cynic in me thinks it's due to the socially conservative environment.

As Paul Graham said ( http://www.paulgraham.com/siliconvalley.html ):

That's the connection between technology and liberalism. Without exception the high-tech cities in the US are also the most liberal. But it's not because liberals are smarter that this is so. It's because liberal cities tolerate odd ideas, and smart people by definition have odd ideas.

Conversely, a town that gets praised for being "solid" or representing "traditional values" may be a fine place to live, but it's never going to succeed as a startup hub.

H1B is your best bet. It will be a lot of paperwork to prove that you are worthy of O1 or EB1 which can get you to USA right away. EB2 is not an option as it will take a long time, currently they are processing EB2 cases from 2007.

I am originally from India and came to US on H1B 9 years ago. I am very familiar with the immigration process. Email me and we can chat.

Quick summary on the U.S. side of things. Only way you can get in here is through a H1B. O-1 will be tough in your case unless you have published a lot of papers (or have a PhD). Since you were not born in the U.S., you may want to look at the Diversity lottery too; i.e. see if you are eligible for that.

Oh, also. You would be eligible for EB-1 only once you have a masters or have hit five years of experience. In which case, the green card will arrive much faster than it would for Indian/Chinese people born in those countries.

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