Hacker News Reader

Comment by trjordan | Hacker News Reader

I know it's easy to say this is for introverts, but this applies to everybody. Public speaking is hard: it's not natural to get up in front of a group of people who aren't going to talk back, and talk for far longer than you'd ever have to in conversation.

I'm a consummate extrovert, and I recently started doing more public speaking, both in front of groups of 20-60 and webinar-style, over the phone with 1-5 people. Both were terrifying, and it still makes me nervous. I've been doing it for about a year, and I'm just now starting to overcome the "Man, I hope something comes up and we have to cancel" feeling.

Practice is the only way to get comfortable, and practice will make you better.

View on HN

Not only does it apply to everybody, but I strongly believe it has nothing to do with whether or not you're an introvert.

I find public speaking "easy". As a teenager I spent a couple of weeks in front of rowdy groups of hundreds of school students during school election debates for a fringe party that made me an ideal candidate for mockery. Didn't phase me. I held the commencement speech at my university my first year in front of thousands of students and TV crews, and people couldn't believe how relaxed I was, but I didn't understand why there was anything to be nervous about; I knew the manuscript and was after all just going to stand there and deliver it. I've spoken to quite a few very varied large groups of people. I don't react to that at all.

Smalltalk with strangers, on the other hand, takes a lot out of me. It's not just that it triggers anxieties in some situations, but even when it doesn't, it is exhausting: I have to concentrate much more to actually listen and take part in conversations that happens for "social reasons" as opposed to about specific subjects, as otherwise I miss cues etc. or simply will go silent.

I don't mind getting up in front of a crowd of any size without a manuscript and deliver my message, even if I know it'll be unpopular, but if I'm in a store, for example, I'd rather spend a couple of extra minutes looking around rather than asking someone who works there to help me find something, because one on one interactions with strangers are draining. I even have to consciously avoid taking steps to "bypass" people I only know vaguely but who I expect might want to talk to me as if I just go on "autopilot" I'll pick the route that leads to the least amount of words exchanged.

Perhaps the "aren't going to talk back" part is what makes public speaking feel easier for me, even when they actually do.

To me, those two things are entirely separate. I'm sure there are lots of introverts that also have problems with public speaking, but conversely I know plenty of introverts other than myself who doesn't have a problem with public speaking, and lots of extroverts who do.

Agreed - some people who think they are good at public speaking are in fact just good at reciting their notes or slides verbatum (big pet peeve). It's one thing to say practice helps - its more of a consistency thing. You have to get used to it and get into a routine of speaking in front of DIFFERENT people.

I have a very similar experience as you. Public speaking doesn't phase me, but the one on one exchanges with strangers or people I rarely interact with are exhausting.

I've thought that perhaps it's because the public speaking is more defined. Either in topic or format. When public speaking on a particular subject I'm more concerned with whether or not the audience is getting the material than I am about whether or not they're interested in me as a individual, or their critiques of my performance ability.

With on-one-one conversations the topics can meander anywhere and maintaining interest can be tiring if there are discussions on topics I frankly couldn't care less about.

I'm in much the same position. I'm very much an introvert, and find small-group smalltalk to be exhausting, difficult, and often results in flubs.

In contrast, I love public speaking, be it on something defined or extemporaneous. It's just so much easier: you concentrate mostly on your thoughts and contributions from the crowd some in small, controllable bursts. It's much less dynamic than actually conducting a conversation with someone.

I agree with this. Introvert/extrovert is another one of those stupid linear continuums (continuua?) that people get socially diagnosed into that don't particularly explain, just label. As a painfully shy person who didn't have any problem being a frontman for touring bands for years, comfort and discomfort with social situations is a subject more complicated than yes you are or no you aren't.

Introvert/extrovert does have real meaning, but people generally use it as a sophisticated synonym for "shy/outgoing", which is utterly false.

Thanks for pointing that out. I am somewhat shy and quite extroverted.

I'm not into labelling, but I do think the whole introvert/extrovert continuum can be helpful for understanding how to deal with people closer to the extremes of the continuum. . .not as much for the people near the middle. I think it's also helpful for understanding organizational dynamics, if the majority of the folks lean heavily in one direction or the other. I'm shy, sometimes painfully so, but I can "flip a switch/adopt a different personna" and appear to be considerably less shy. Sometimes, it's almost like I'm having an out-of-body experience.

> It's not just that it triggers anxieties in some situations, but even when it doesn't, it is exhausting

Yes. For me, it's that small talk is so boring. Even not-so-small talk gets dull to me. Like, I recently took a trip to Vietnam for two weeks. Obviously everybody wants to hear about it, which I know at some level is because they like me and are interested in my life, but I am now just sick of talking about it! I've been telling the same stories over and over, and it just wears me out now to talk about it.

So I think extraverts love the opportunity to tell stories, even well-trod ones, whereas we introverts just abhor it.

Good point mentioning the word anxiety. The blog post reads just as well for self treatment of any other form of anxiety. Scared of heights? Claustrophobic? Anxious about "making the first move" when dating? Self treatment reads pretty much like a search and replace of the blog post.

Not saying its a bad post or wrong, but its one overly concrete example of a very general family of coping strategies. And knowing when you can generalize a strategy (and when you can't) is a mighty handy skill to have, so think about it, and not thinking about it, is the only disservice the post did.

There is the side strategy of using introversion as a crutch for anxiety. INT/EXT pretty much boils down to what do you like doing in your spare time, not much more. I like reading books and I don't like talking to that jerk in finance, so um, ah, I tell everyone I don't talk to that jerk in finance because I'm INT, because its easier than the social conflict issue of explaining how the guy's a total jerk.

Trust me, all that being a pretty strong INT means WRT public speaking, is I don't want to hang out with the audience after a speech. As an INT I enjoy public speaking, its unidirectional so I don't have to listen to their meaningless BS I honestly don't care about. One on one high pressure sales, now that's something an INT would inherently hate, because I just can't get my heart into pretending to care about some victim's favorite baseball team only so I can sell something to them, me doing high pressure 1 on 1 sales would be somewhere between a comedy and a tragedy, only certainty is I'd be way off the script... Public speaking is actually fun as an INT, and that fun feeling comes out in the talk, makes it a good one. Summary, absolutely no incompatibility with public speaking and INT.

Now there's nothing wrong with anxiety, particularly the very popular public speaking anxiety. Personally, I'm pretty anxious about heights, and the blog comments pretty much describe my "heights coping strategies". Everybody's got their "thing" they can't stand. Its not some fake INT/EXT thing.

"Practice is the only way to get comfortable, and practice will make you better."

Totally agree with this.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com