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Comment by hox | Hacker News Reader

Why have such a narrow view? Have you considered that 99% of NSA employees might be just like you and me, have absolutely no malicious intent, and have absolutely no knowledge or understanding of the programs the NSA is reported to practice?

Look at the converse - these employees have already been through a thorough background investigation and have been entrusted with highly secure data. These employees probably also have a higher (or at least average) tolerance against "being coerced" as you say into circumventing security mechanisms enforced by their employer - I can only imagine the counterintelligence nightmare that would exist if the clearance vetting process didn't try to weed out easily coerced individuals.

My point being: try not to focus on the negatives of the news, and remember that these are real people, many incredibly talented and trustworthy.

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I don't know about you, but someone who works at the NSA and isn't at least aware of some of the crap they're doing (which has been reported from the mainstream media, mind, this isn't exactly suppressed news) is someone who I wouldn't consider aware of their surroundings, and therefore unsuited to the task.

So, these real people. One of them comes to you for a sysadmin job. NSA and a high-ish security clearance is on their resumé.

Are they ignorant, apathetic, or malicious? It's one of the three. They either don't know what their government is perpetrating (and aren't paying attention), they know and don't care (because the dollar overrides all morals), or they know, care, and are playing for the other team.

"They're real people" is just an emotional appeal that ignores a very real ethical dilemma. Real people actually suck sometimes.

> Are they ignorant, apathetic, or malicious?

Nice use of the 'false choice' rhetorical device.

I'm not sure why you think that every employee of a large organization is somehow ideologically synchronized, operationally involved, and morally responsible for every policy decision made by the organization.

That isn't even true in small organizations, never mind large need-to-know organizations.

It's not a false choice. This is the government, not a random factory somewhere making random widgets where the biggest ethical problem a person may face is whether to report their boss for embezzling. This is a lot bigger.

You needn't be ideologically synchronized or operationally involved to be complicit in oiling the machine responsible for the crimes that keep coming out recently.

Moral responsibility comes in when you decide to take money from these people instead of deciding to yourself "You know, maybe I don't want to be part, however small, of crimes against the public".

And that takes it right back to ignorance, apathy, or malice.

> Why have such a narrow view? Have you considered that 99% of NSA employees might be just like you and me, have absolutely no malicious intent, and have absolutely no knowledge or understanding of the programs the NSA is reported to practice?

How is it narrow? I said I would be hesitant, but it wouldn't immediately exclude them as a candidate. I don't believe ignoring this past employer would be appropriate the same way I don't believe ignoring a past employer who happened to be a main competitor. Just because it may be unlikely, doesn't mean it should be ignored.

> These employees probably also have a higher (or at least average) tolerance against "being coerced" as you say into circumventing security mechanisms enforced by their employer

Depending on the attributes that make them hard to coerce (e.g. patriotism), what's a plus for government employment may be a negative in this specific assessment. A patriotic employee may be hard to coerce when working for the government, but depending on the line taken, the government may have a significantly easier time coercing them when they are working somewhere else ("but it's for national security!".

> My point being: try not to focus on the negatives of the news, and remember that these are real people, many incredibly talented and trustworthy.

The undercurrent of my comment, which may not have been clear, is that these admins may find it harder to find employment in the private sector after the recent NSA revelations. That's unfortunate because I'm sure most of them are completely innocent and great employees, making this layoff even worse than it sounds.

Edit: s/public sector/private sector/. Duh.

This is the problem with the Deep State. When a huge portion of what the government does is deception and subterfuge, it should not be a surprise that everyone becomes suspicious of government.

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