Koding - Free VMs for online development
koding.github.io
koding.github.io
But as a coder, I could never for the life of me figure out what Koding is for. Apparently the Koding team doesn't know either.
It's a bunch of (admittedly cool) tech features thrown in a box and shaken up a bit. Now the team is scratching their heads about what it is they've built, trying to justify their investment money. Koding is a fine example of a "sitcom" startup in YC parlance [1]: social virtualized viral cloud coding, just because.
So that's my analysis. If anyone from the Koding team reads this, here's my advice: Stop. Take a machete to 80% of the product. Figure out what it is that you're great at, and that people really, really want. Then you won't need to be making silly goggle videos or tragic blog posts like this one.
I work on an open source project and I've just submitted a patch. Tomorrow, I'm travelling to go spend a week with my parents, away from home. I don't plan on taking my laptop with me, but I want to follow up on my patch. Reviews are probably going to ask for minor changes.
Basically, I can see myself using something like this when I'm on the move. I'm not a big fan of dragging my laptop with me everywhere I go...
It's different from your own remote server because you don't need to set one up.
they hope to make money from selling servers.
The video wasn't intended to be a pitch. It was intended for users who are new to Koding, and to quickly gloss over the features of Koding so users can get there bearings on where to go for what.
I really dislike the docs being linked to, as everyone here seems to think that the docs are:
A: Official (understandable, but nevertheless the docs have been made by users) B: A sales pitch.
I wanted to make the docs because the Koding Team had very little to no documentation, and i've spent a year answering some very common problems in the Koding Activity Feed. The koding docs have helped quite a few users i think, and i'm proud of them.
They aren't a sales pitch to try and buy you. I never intended for that, and i'm sorry they have been posted to HN as such :/
I know i had no trouble "Getting" Koding, but that is because remote development is something i've been using/toying with for three or four years now. Originally it was heavy SSH, and focusing on trying to create VIM IDEs and improve a terminal oriented workflow so that it can all work through SSH, but eventually i learned about some of these Online Dev Environments. I used Cloud9 for about a year, before switching to Koding about a year ago. The point being, i've wanted this remote-environment concept for such a long time, it sort of comes naturally to me.
I imagine if you're very used to working locally, you have a hard time seeing the advantages of using a remote platform. I can understand, it's a very new tech, and it's not the next coming of Christ or anything. I got a bit overzealous with the "unlimited possibilities" line lol, but i have made an issue on the matter and plan on rewording that.
With all that said, i do strongly disagree that "Apparently the Koding team doesn't know either.". You're taking a beta product, with an obviously large list of features that aren't implemented, and saying that the devs don't know what the product is good for. It obviously has a roadmap, both with visible and non-visible features planned, so i think the devs have a good idea where they are headed with it.
It's not perfect of course, but online development is quite new. After being a user of many of these platforms, i chose Koding, so obviously i feel it's "the best". I am obviously biased because i have picked this platform as my platform of choice, but with the warning i hope you won't hold this against me.
Anyway, you can read my other posts which talk about how my docs project, and especially my "2 minute Koding" video, are not pitches to use Koding. They are for Koding users mostly, people who have already decided on the platform. These are things i, as a user, wanted to give to the community and hopefully foster an environment that i want to feel. Communities are what you make of them, and i am trying my part.
I respect your opinion nonetheless, and i'm sure the devs are taking what you say to heart. I hope i can improve the Overview as well, based on the feedback. :)
Basically, http://koding.com offers full vm with root support and a web-terminal (again just like a desktop terminal) to access this it. What does it mean? It is a full featured Ubuntu where you can install any stack you want. Want to play with Redis? No problem just do apt-get install redis-server. Want to try to use vim? Just type vim and enter. You see that only your imagination stops you here.
Not only this it has the concept of "Apps" that let you install custom webapps inside Koding, which can access your VM. For example there is the Rails Dashboard app that let you deploy and setup Rails instances with just one click. There is the Teamwork app, which is a collaborative way to work with your friends, basically you can share and play together on the same editor and terminal! Just think how great this is, you basically can mentor someone, you can get help to develop your app and so on.
Well not only this, there is also Groups where you can work and share your with your friends,class,team, etc.. Groups are awesome because they are totally separated from Koding and you can control and give access control to each of the member of the groups. This are basically subreddits with their own members and culture. Also VM's can be shared amongst the members, which makes it awesome to work together on projects.
This is just a sneak peek and many other features are on the way. Just give it a try please and see yourself how many great things
After watching the video, I did understand what Koding was solving and was excited by it's potential. But, that message needs to be communicated more clearly when visiting the Koding homepage.
From the docs:
"Koding offers nearly unlimited possibilities; so many in fact, that people often misunderstand what Koding is being designed for. "
This seems aloof. I feel that this is more explanatory of what Koding offers:
"Koding provides free hosted VMs for development to anyone. The Koding VMs provide you with a real Ubuntu OS, with a real Terminal, and allow you to work on real code. Python, PHP, C++, C, it doesn't matter. Even better, they are online. Accessible from anywhere in the world. Even sharable with teams."
On a side note, would it be possible to offer offline capability? Perhaps allowing users to download/upload Vagrant VMs configured with Puppet.
> This seems aloof. I feel that this is more explanatory of what Koding offers:
I would agree with this sentiment. I didn't expect so much publicity over my little doc project haha. I'll look at rewording that, thanks for the feedback :)
> On a side note, would it be possible to offer offline capability? Perhaps allowing users to download/upload Vagrant VMs configured with Puppet.
To my limited understanding, the VMs will offer an always-on option in the future. I haven't heard of a timeframe on any of this though.
My apologies if i'm slow to reply/etc, i'm new to this platform.
edit: I made an issue on this note. https://github.com/koding/docs/issues/71
The fact they publicly say its free does not strike me as a strength, how are they going to pay the bills to store all of my data?
It looks like it started life as an online php editor (kodingen.com) but now has broadened out to supporting vms with 'social' stuff.
Some of the main competitors are: - https://c9.io/ - http://compilr.com - https://codenvy.com
The general experience after playing with it for a few minutes is quite nice, robust file tree, good editor (ace), interesting news feed.
btw, your compilr link goes to a domain squatter.
"Approximately 20 minutes after you log out, your Free VMs will shut down."
followed shortly by
"Note: In the future Paid Always-On VMs will be an option. This is currently not available though."
Not sure why, but i'll add a link to Koding from the docs today. Thanks for the feedback :)
What is the business plan? I don't want it to be advertising or selling information about me.
The documentation could be better. The site looks very slick but doesn't really lay out the basics. For instance, just reading, I wasn't sure whether or not files are stored between VM runs (i.e. being able to save my work and configurations for use in later sessions).
The site (koding.github.io) doesn't even link to the main page (koding.com).
Side note: start ups have terrible names. What's wrong with using actual words?
One part "brand names have always been silly" and one part "need to find a domain name that's available".
1. At the simplest level, it's an installation of Ace (http://ace.c9.io/), an in-browser code editor. So you can edit code in-browser and it gets saved it to some (free) cloud storage.
2. There are some social features added on to this, which I haven't really investigated, but I guess you can form groups, get a feed of updates, share projects, etc.
3. In addition to the basic cloud storage + editing, you can spin up (also free) VM instances to back the editor, forming a dev environment. Your web-based editing space gets mounted as /home, and you have root access to an Ubuntu machine so you can install whatever you need. This can all be managed through either the web interface, or SSH if you prefer. However since they're only intended to back the IDE, the VMs shut down about 20 mins after everyone accessing one has closed their Koding browser window, to discourage using them as free VPS hosting.
There are a few other companies in this space. Cloud9, which developed the Ace editor (https://c9.io/) are possibly the best-established. Koding seems to differentiate by emphasizing the social/collaborative features more, and possibly in being more generous with the VMs. There is also https://www.nitrous.io, which I don't know anything about. If anyone's up for writing an article, I'd certainly be interested in an overview of the current offerings from someone who's actually used them, i.e. more in-depth than I can glean from checking out their websites.
My goal was to quickly gloss over the features with the video, but i thought the concept of Online Development was a pretty well grasped concept. No offense to you of course, the video obviously falls short for a lot of people. It's not intended to be a pitch, just an overview.
I had hoped that by going over the features, that Koding would make a bit of sense. Perhaps i need to redo the video? The short timeframe goal, really limits me though haha.
I never intended my 2 minute overview to be on the front page of Koding, nor be posted onto reddit and here. This is so much more publicity than a short little video targetted at new Koding users.
Nevertheless, thanks for the feedback :)
But the service still lovely, looking forward to see it get more stable through the years.
2. Would it be possible for the online virtual machine to access a USB debugger on my desktop? thank you.
Since you're using VM technology I'd have assumed this would be a no-brainer to setup and enforce?
You and what army? They could be doing that or they could be adding features...
P.S. I accidentally downvoted you whilst copy-pasting your comment and can't undo it, sorry about that. Feel free to downvote me back.
Update: Tried it in my unprotected chrome and after a few bumps got it working. Once you are signed in the demo is pretty good.
P.S. I work for Koding.
We're in public beta now and anyone can sign up: https://koding.com
P.S. I work for Koding.
A better way to address the problem is to just persistently keep fighting it and raising this issue. Running away from it will not get us anywhere.
nobody who wants to make software for a living i'd imagine... although i guess it could work really well for web hosting type stuff where the crippling choice of OS is irrelevant?