Can You Keep Your Integrity? | Hacker News Reader

Can You Keep Your Integrity?

artofmanliness.com

54 pointsgiis17 comments

My interest is not just knowing if I can keep my integrity, but how to keep it. What beliefs and behaviors motivate integrity?

For me, I remember a simple realization. Once I was alone in an elevator, tired. I slouched, a behavior I don't like. For some reason it dawned on me that slouching when no one could see me mattered as much as any in public.

I extrapolated from this otherwise trivial observation to everything and the words "It matters even when no one can see" entered my daily thoughts and beliefs, guiding decisions and behavior. Though the observation sounds trivial, one, it works and two, that's what integrity means: even little things count.

(Not that it's a big deal, but I wrote it up this summer -- http://joshuaspodek.com/belief-promote-integrity-authenticit...)

Basically, it boils down to discipline. Discipline allows you to do whatever you want. If you think "This sounds silly, I live in a free world, I can do what I want", think again: All of us had a day during which we went "Meh, I can't do sports/write in my book/practice/work on my toy project, it's way too warm/cold/early/late". That's an instance where you can't do what you want, because you lack discipline.

Once you acquire a strong discipline, you just need to go the right path even in the small things and you are very, very integer.

It won't be easy, because if you are integer, you will just go your path and collide with stuff and it will hurt and discomfort everyone involved. But then again, that's the point of discipline: You can do what you want, even if it's hard.

>>"It matters even when no one can see"

This reminded me of Steve Jobs's father, who was a carpenter I believe. Steve shared an anecdote where his father would refuse to use cheap wood for the backs of cabinets, even though they wouldn't be visible.

A really nice article. I always wonder about the psychology of dishonest people and I really like the explanation about the brain filling the gap for the cheating person.

In a related question I always though that there was a complex relation between the feeling of honesty and a dishonest behavior.

Example 1: Crook says: "Well of course buy my product." ("I know that it is a lie but you will buy it because you are a sucker")

Example 2: Crook says: "Well of course buy my product." ("Ok. It might not be the best product on the market but I am an honest man doing a hard job and I have kids to feed")

I am sure that you see a lot more of the 2nd type of crook in our world.

EDIT: The idea is of course that very few people lie deliberately and most of us do it with some kind of justification. Honest people might lie because they may think that they deserve more.

You might have interest in watching Ladri di biciclette. It's a fantastic movie that explores this issue of what it means to steal.

Yes, Its also known as "Bicycle Thieves" I loved it :D

I think there's a lot of victim complex in it too, as in people see themselves as deserving a break, and others punishment, such that harming others for personal gain is justified.

Every example in the article can be presented as: "Do I value what I think of me more than what others think of me?"

Well yes, isn't that basically what 'keeping your integrity' boils down to?

Not all that different than 'If you don't act on your principles, you don't have any principles.'

Only if you happen to agree with this guy's value judgments.

He counts ad blocking and "pirating movies" as unethical! The former assumes some nonexistent contract obligating people to do whatever a website asks, and the latter amounts to "whatever Congress decided to put in current law is your ethical obligation". Lots of principled people disagree on each of those.

Then he goes on to treat his value judgments as if they were statements of objective facts, and examines the mentality supposedly involved in rationalizing conduct he assumes is unethical - leaving a gap in his reasoning, at best. You can't reduce ethics to psychology.

It would have been more interesting if he'd taken on bigger issues. For example, "(How) can I make an honest living if all my job prospects involve exploitive practices? Is there a third way between being an antisocial hermit and a capitalistic sociopath?"

I find it's a lot easier and effective to have integrity if you have a practical moral code that aligns with human nature/emotions instead of platonic societal ideals of integrity. For instance, not cheating is a big one that I have disagreement with. We are naturally inclined as humans not to be monogamous, so to feel guilty for wanting to cheat or even going through with the act is self-defeating.

More important are questions like the "why" of cheating than the "what". Is the relationship dysfunctional? Is it just a fling? etc etc. And are my or my partners life actually negatively affected by it?

Do you have less integrity if you cheat? Maybe. But I think integrity is the art of balancing societal expectations, platonic ideals, and actual human nature/instincts. Adhering to a strict moral code doesn't make you a good person. If anything it makes you bitter, narcissistic, and resentful of other people.

Contributing to society on the whole is what counts.

The name/theme of the site really put me off. It suggests an audience of men who are so insecure they feel they have to live up to some imaginary ideal of "manliness". Isn't being a good person more suitable, with maybe some minor variations in particulars based on one's sex.

This also makes the article rather misplaced, by implication. Isn't integrity equally a virtue for women as well? Placing this whole concept under the banner of "manliness" indicates a rather warped perspective, IMHO.

They have articles on shaving too, does this imply that women don't shave? I bet they have articles on automotive repair, it must mean they don't think the broads can handle it.

Gender should not have to be sanitized from everything for it to be acceptable. It's simple existence does not actually imply anything.

unfortunately integrity and business success are often negatively correlated (asserted without proof...)

While I agree that there may be some short term gains to be made without integrity, there are a number of examples of successful companies that work very hard to maintain it that have seen great success, whether it is the customer service ethic at an Amazon or Zappos, or the need for the late Mr. Jobs to make sure even the unseen components were of the highest quality. Companies with integrity tend to build more stable platforms for success, though there are plenty of profit opportunities for those without integrity. (asserted with merely anecdotal proof...)

What you're describing is not integrity (or perhaps integrity limited to business-customer interactions only). The more challenging part of integrity is how you treat your business partners, workers (paying peanuts to workers who manufacture the iStuff while sitting on billions), if you dodge taxes etc. That's the money part as well - being greedy and heartless vastly increases your chance of making it big.

My my, what an unpatriotic attitude.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com