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Comment by vasilipupkin | Hacker News Reader

Snowden had me until he traveled to Russia with 4 laptops full of NSA secrets. I mean no matter how bad NSA is, Putin is 1000 times worse

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Maybe he's worse than the NSA for Russians, but he ain't doing anything to me. As a non-USAsian, the NSA and what they're doing Hoovering up everything they can about me sucks way more.

I stand by what I said even after the downvote :) I don't like what NSA is doing and I applaud Snowden for exposing their activities. However, people like Putin is why we have to have the NSA in the first place

"people like Putin is why we have to have the NSA in the first place"

so the government propaganda does work :)

I am not defending the NSA or claiming that we should not curtail or better monitor what they are doing. What I am saying is, being a freedom fighter and then seeking asylum in Russia which is the place that heavily curtails personal freedoms of all kinds is kind of ironic don't you think? especially in light of the fact that Snowden allegedly has these 4 laptops with him

being a freedom fighter and then seeking asylum in Russia which is the place that heavily curtails personal freedoms of all kinds is kind of ironic

when the rest of the world bows to US threats and hands over official presidential planes for searching, there's not much choice is there?

and yes, the whole situation is very ironic, if you your views on the world come from western media

So it all boils down to "the enemy of my enemy" rationale then?

or he was just cornered in there, while trying to reach a more "benign" destination

Where would you seek refuge then, assuming you wanted to remain alive for > 1 week?

Do you really stand behind the 1000% hyperbole?

yes. Have you followed news out of Russia lately ?

Yeah, some shitty news coming out of Russia around the criminalisation of homosexuality.

The news coming out of Snowden on the US is very fucking bad too.

So what happens if homosexuality is outlawed in the US and the NSA can dragnet every online thing ever?

this hypothetical if seems irrelevant to our discussion. US and the rest of the western world have a much better track record on supporting individual freedoms than Putin's government, which violates them whenever it sees fit or whenever it's politically expedient. That fact is hard to argue with

What do the recent leaks have to do with Putin? What relevance is there in what you're saying? Sometimes it's not a binary 'good guys vs bad guys'.

Do you honestly believe a trained KGB agent like Putin would give Snowden asylum in Russia without getting something in return ( I mean other than publicity )? Possible, it is also possible he got something in return from Snowden

Has Snowden given you any reason to think that he'd do that? The guy must be principled as shit to have done what he's done in the first place.

I just think it's naive to believe that Russian regime would not use the information that Snowden has in his possession in exchange for asylum.

When there are no "good" governments left (and the extent of your own country's graciousness is "not seek death penalty" for you), your options are limited. Put yourself in his position. What else could he do? Stay in the US and be subject to the same fate as Manning (possibly even worse)?

Yeah you're right, he's an irreconcilable traitor. Though I mean, it's a bit of an assumptive jump from whistleblower to turncloak spy, but I'm totally with you. Although.. he did give the data to journalists, and not to Putin. And he did plan to go further but got his passport cancelled.. But yeah, I'm sure the jump you made there is sound.. there is after all an exhaustive list of alternative places that would have sheltered him. Right?

Snowden actually wanted to go to Ecuador - Russia was simply a layover on the flight. It's only because the US demonstrated it wouldn't allow him to leave (by virtue of pressuring European countries to deny airspace permission) that he's still here.

>4 laptops full of NSA secrets

Source? The man was a sysadmin for the NSA, not some script kiddie.

So where was Snowden meant to travel to? Russia wasn't his preferred final destination...

Where did you read that he has 4 laptops that are full of NSA secrets? I know only this:

http://littlegreenfootballs.com/article/42127_LA_Times_Contr...

It's silly to blame Snowden to any degree. He got enough troubles from his employer already. The problem is the reason why he got "4 laptops of NSA secrets". Hint: it is because there are certain people who lie, spy and threaten people.

I disagree with your logic. If the goal is to further the goals of open society and freedom, the worst way to do it is to deliver US Govt secrets to Putin's KGB ( or FSB as they call it now ). What is the net effect of this action? depending on what's on those laptops, he could have made things worse

It's silly to focus on Snowden's actions at all when uncontrolled violent organization forces various groups of people to give up information on millions of people and lie to them about the fact.

Imagine, Snowden does not go to Russia, but goes to Finland instead. Did it make your life any better considering what we know?

"uncontrolled violent organization". That's a bit of an overstatement, don't you think? And the same or worse could be said of the Russian FSB ( former KGB )

Am I defending Russian government anywhere?

Government is not controlled by people. This is easy to prove by trying to peacefully disagree with government's procedures. E.g. not paying taxes or not following regulations when establishing a company or a bank.

"Voting" is a suggestion. You are not allowed to "vote" for "leave me alone, I don't hurt anyone".

"Government is not controlled by people. This is easy to prove by trying to peacefully disagree with government's procedures. E.g. not paying taxes"

I am not sure why you would assert that paying taxes is not in the interest of the people. Functioning government is definitely in the interest of the people and taxes pay for it

There is no reason to believe Snowden gave anything to Russian interests. In fact Snowden has stated that he took precautions so that he couldn't hand over any secrets even under torture. Presumably he can still give up whatever is in his head but there is no evidence to suggest he has done that either.

This is not about who is worse.

I agree with you to a degree, however, it is not entirely fair to view NSA activities in isolation as if they are happening in an idealized world where Putin and the KGB do not exist

Name the country which is acceptable, possible to travel too, and out of US reach.

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