The authors response in the comments to an overzealous attempt at political correctness was wonderful.
It's okay to disagree--I didn't find the "men use Apply(), not for" thing to be particularly offensive myself, honestly--but there are many ways to disagree without resorting to the kind of hateful, caustic language the author used. This is not how well-adjusted adults disagree when having a discussion.
It never got the chance to be a discussion, as the author responded to the opening volley with a shotgun blast.
That's his prerogative, of course, as it is his blog, and he can take his ball and go home if he wants to.
The cause of women in computer science (which as student of a CS department, I wholeheartedly support) is not helped by people derailing everything in the manner in which the commentator did.
It's not a derail. It is a topic which came up because of language the author used, and which is an ongoing problem in the community of software developers. While you are free to believe in a platonic ideal of "pure ideas and discussion," it doesn't exist in this messy world of relationships and human language and politics. If you are still a student, I suggest you take a gender/sexual/racial politics course and try befriending some people with very much opposite viewpoints to your own. You may be surprised at your shift in thinking.
But leaving that aside for the moment, let's say the author's main intent was to "nip that derailing in the bud." What do you think the most effective, least hurtful way to approach that would have been?
1) Ignore the comment, 2) assuming he is the administrator of the WordPress blog he writes on, delete/hide the comment, or 3) lash out in a juvenile, sexist, hateful fashion.
I'm going to go with 1 or 2 being better than option 3 any day of the week.
> Apply() is the right way for grown-assed men do things.
sexist?
Am I not reading enough into it or something? As far as I can tell somebody was making a fuss about some non issue and was shot down for it.
Or it implies that whoever reads the text, man or woman, will be wise enough not to give a fuck for such minutiae.
It has been postulated, I think plausibly, that the commonality of such language is one reason why this gender disparity continues to exist.
Personally, I agree with this argument. If you disagree, that is fine -- but please show a little bit more respect.
The idea that "the commonality of such language" is the reason, is like the idea that video games and action movies create killers and criminals.
My point stands here equally well, for the same reason. (This idea I happen to disagree with, but that's not relevant.) The idea you mentioned is not obviously stupid. I don't see what dismissing the idea without refuting it adds to the conversation.
So?
>features exclusively discussion and pictures of men or languages invented by men
You've got to be kidding me right? The majority of programming languages are made by men, it is statistically likely any discussion of programming languages involve those made by men. You might as well attribute any discussion of programming languages as sexist.
I'm not sure if this response should have a /sarcasm tag on the end because it's more sexist then the original comment.
His reaction may have been juvenile and extreme, but I certainly don't think it was sexist. What makes you say that?
Scott Locklin is playing the game of taking proud ownership of his own labels. "I'm not a member of your cool modern hipster club, I'm just a geek who cares about fast computation." For comparison, see also "I'm a man hating dyke, meh, I get more pussy than you."
This is not true in the least. The "politically incorrect", as you put it, get free license to say and do sexist and racist things and its up to the people affected by that to speak up. When those people do speak up, usually their attempt to bring up that point is the subject of criticism.
> The person being accused of political incorrectness is automatically assumed to be a person of the worst sort - sexist, unthinking, mean.
That someone's tears and fears of being called out on a being a sexist is considered more of a problem then their sexist words and behavior is a key part of having privilege.
> For comparison, see also "I'm a man hating dyke, meh, I get more pussy than you."
That statement drips with misogyny, homophobia, and transphobia. If someone wants to take ownership of those aspects of themselves, that's fine, but that person deserves to be ridiculed for it.
No they don't. If they phrase factually correct statements the wrong way, society condemns and penalizes them. Larry Summers is a perfect illustration of this.
That someone's tears and fears of being called out on a being a sexist is considered more of a problem then their sexist words and behavior is a key part of having privilege.
It's not considered "more of a problem" by pretty much anyone.
Accusing someone of sexism is just a rhetorical weapon used by the privileged to make dissenters stop speaking truth to power. A person who's beliefs align them with modern liberalism has an extraordinary privilege - they do not suffer the presumption that they are bad people with evil beliefs. They can make content-free assertions, make ad-hominem attacks against those who disagree, while in contrast those who disagree must present mountains of evidence for their position.
(Oh yes I am being the jerk who uses the language of political correctness against itself.)
As for the statement you describe as "drips with mysogyny, homophobia and transphobia", it's a statement I heard made by a lesbian who was taking ownership of the word "dyke". If you wish to ridicule lesbians who claim "dyke" for their own (or blacks who claim "nigger" for their own) be my guest.
How the fuck is that "wonderful"? The comment was something along the lines of "I wish people wouldn't use that kind of language", and the response was in the form "If I insult you enough, I don't have to acknowledge your argument". Looking at the other comments, the one nitpicking about the choice of Lady Gaga is equally as useless, but strangely that one didn't get an angry reply.
The fact that this is even "a thing" with 30-odd comments about it is a sad commentary on the illness which afflicts modern civilization. If this isn't clear: I don't like people with such "refined" sensibilities, and they are invited to never, ever read my blog. If you're that sensitive, you belong by yourself in a yurt, where nobody's language or opinions will bother you.
Personally, I've never met an actual programmer of any race, gender or creed who actually is that sensitive. People that sensitive are mentally ill, and don't have jobs. I've met plenty of power-mad Cotton Mather sickos who think they have the right to police the words and opinions of others though. The fact that people think witch hunts over a fscking word are OK; that is not OK.
As for people saying "I wish people wouldn't use that kind of language" -- those are the scum of the earth.
Given that reality, I'm coming down more on the side of stopping and listening when I hear a criticism of elements of our culture, rather than becoming reactionary. The criticism may not be right...but, it's worth listening and thinking about it, rather than just jumping down someone's throat with an angry and childish insult. Is it "political correctness" or actually language that turns people away? I don't have the answers...but, programming wasn't always a male-dominated field. The fact that it has become more and more so over time tells me something is wrong. Listening to ideas on what that wrong thing (or things) might be is probably a start on fixing it.
I don't think the gender equality in the industry is worsening, as you say. It certainly has worsened in recent years, but the strong movement in support of women in CS is gaining traction. My opinion on it may be jaded by the "white male privelege", but to me it seems the balance is starting to be reinstated slightly. Numbers of females joining the department each year has been increasing since I entered the degree, and recent statistics released actually showed there is now more women than men in the post-graduate CS degrees. Whether this is the case everywhere, I don't know (and doubt), but it's certainly a start.
Again, I'm not sure I understand the nuances of why someone felt uncomfortable with this particular piece of language; but if I assume good intentions, all it costs me is a moment of my time to think about it and try to understand. And maybe, by taking that time and showing a little respect for that view, I'll help someone feel welcome into this community I've been a part of for so long. I think it's probably worth the trouble...and, in the end, I'm pretty sure I'm a better person than I was a couple years ago before I got involved in this kind of activism.
I don't know how to convince others to stop being reactionary, and instead simply think about what's being said. Anti-oppression training might be cool at tech conferences, but I suspect it'd be the least attended track.
"I don't know how to convince others to stop being reactionary" If it helps, your views have helped me consider my reaction to this. I understand and empathise with why he reacted how he did, but my reaction to his post was probably a step further into inappropriate. Thank you.