Hacker News Reader

Comment by davecyen | Hacker News Reader

Self admittedly, I'm a newb at coding but I've tried emacs and am not a fan. I get the benefits of being able to debug and execute code immediately in the REPL, but I would much rather write code in sublime text or any other text editor. The last thing I want to do when I'm writing code is try to remember some obscure combination of keys in order to perform a simple backspace or copy and paste a line of code. Have not been convinced otherwise yet, maybe someone here can better enlighten me

View on HN

That's an argument not against Emacs but against not knowing Emacs. The only issue with the keybindings is that they are different from other software. This should not be an issue! After all, an editor is probably going to be your most-used piece of software; spending a good amount of time up front to get even a small benefit over the long run will definitely pay off.

After a week or two of using Emacs, you will get used to all of the keybindings and stop thinking about them. They'll become entirely natural and instinctive. Sure, Emacs takes more effort to learn, but you should view this as a good thing: more powerful tools are always like that. An F1 car is also difficult, but nothing will get you around the track faster.

The problems you're talking about will go away after a bit of effort. Is it really worth throwing out all the additional power and configurability--advantages that will last for years--just to save yourself a couple of weeks of minor frustration?

>The last thing I want to do when I'm writing code is try to remember some obscure combination of keys in order to perform a simple backspace or copy and paste a line of code.

That makes me think that you really haven't tried Emacs. Backspace is just backspace. Copying and pasting is not too different than what you'd use in other software (but it can be, in many awesome ways). Do the tutorial, start using it daily, focus on the stuff you really need. The rest comes along on its own.

> Backspace is just backspace

Unless you're on the wrong terminal. (google "emacs fix backspace")

Besides, it's really a big deal that most applications in your system use one set of hotkeys, while bash and emacs use a totally different one.

What other applications are there on a system but Bash and Emacs? :P

Besides, you can tell GTK to use Emacs-y keybindings rather than the ‘standard’ C-v, C-x, C-c.

> What other applications are there on a system but Bash and Emacs? :P

I remember the days when it was just sh/ksh and vi in any commercial UNIX flavor.

The reason for Emacs using a different set of key bindings (C-u catches me all the damn time) is that Emacs had its genesis outside of Unix. Emacs keybindings and the endless crusade to force "info" as a "man" replacement all stem from RMS's sad devotion to an ancient religion (ITS).

>Unless you're on the wrong terminal.

I know... how often do you find yourself in such a situation nowadays, though?

Out of the gate, Emacs feels clumsy and frustrating compared to ST or any other more standard text editor.

Where emacs shines is when you start to micro-analyze your text editing process and learn how to optimize it with emacs.

Until you get to that stage, though, which isn't always the beginning for many - emacs probably isn't for you.

It's not going to make you edit text faster just because you use it - you have to actively study and look at new ways of editing. Watch an emacs master at work, it will blow your mind.

Right. This is the part that is a waste of time. How much time do developers spend typing in a given day inside their text editor? Maybe its 1% of their workday? The vast majority of their time is spent thinking. I'm highly doubtful that using emacs improves the thing that matters- code quality.

Perhaps it is possible to be more efficient with emacs than Sublime or TextMate. Editing code 20% faster is not a convincing argument for switching to emacs and the months of study it would require.

I find the hazing around emacs/vim to be peculiar. In what other arena would it be appropriate to tell a new user to study your software instead of making software that doesn't need to be studied?

disclaimer: I use emacs and sublime.

I spend about 95% of my time in my editor. I really can't fathom what you're getting at, here. For most developers I know, reading or writing code is what programming is. What are you doing with your time?

> The last thing I want to do when I'm writing code is try to remember some obscure combination of keys in order to perform a simple backspace or copy and paste a line of code.

What is obscure about using the Backspace key for Backspace? For copy and paste, you can feel free to remap Command + [XCV] to Cut, Copy, Paste if you desire. It is three simple lines to remap, or you can just enable CuaMode with:

    (cua-mode t)

in your .emacs file.

meh,how do you copy a line in sublime then ? You are not even using sublime.Spend couple of hours just learning the basic commands of whatever editor you prefer using.If your editor is any good you will have more to learn after the two hours.If you are worried about obscure key combinations learn vim,it's like a language for text processing.You can even activate vintage mode in sublime if you like the look of sublime. just my .02

I've been using Emacs for 15+ years now I think and I have always found the more complicated keybindings ("chords") for common things awful. However part of normal Emacs usage is configuring it to your liking, so learn about "M-x global-set-key" and mold Emacs to your liking.

(Or use evil-mode.)

To put stuff in perspective, before Emacs people were using Vi. Not VIM (what people who say they use VI use today), but real hardcore VI.

So with Emacs you had less strange key bindings to remember, and you didn't have to switch between the edit mode and the command mode.

There was some religion then also, that "modes" were too much for the human brain.

Don't worry, you're not weird. I used Emacs full time for 8 years and I've made occasional attempts to go back to it for various things. In my opinion it's awful, and I know a fair number of people who feel that way. In my opinion the most important thing about Emacs is that pretty much any language out there has some Emacs support, but in my opinion that just makes it an editor that's equally bad at a lot of languages :-)

It's not for everyone. If it's not for you, there are plenty of perfectly fine (even gasp better) alternatives.

Why did you use it for 8 full years if it is so awful? Maybe other alternatives for your use case were simply more awful, thus making Emacs the best tool for the job?

Reply on news.ycombinator.com