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Comment by RyanZAG | Hacker News Reader

The article does in a way - you take those vitamins because someone, somewhere at some time was pushing them as an amazing cure. A couple studies were done, data was likely cherry picked, and now you pay money to some company to give it to you. That company makes very sure that beneficial studies are done as often as possible.

I doubt that those vitamins are doing you much harm, but I honestly doubt that you are getting much real benefit from them either (unless you have a real, medical deficiency). But hey, taking them probably makes you feel safer, so you'll likely keep taking them regardless.

Interestingly, the age of a person is usually the best indicator of which vitamins they will take - people often get snagged into some 'holy grail' vitamin (free radicals being the newest) and then continue to take them because accepting that what you've been paying for over years is a waste of money is very hard to take.

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  > I honestly doubt that you are getting much
  > real benefit from them either (unless you have
  > a real, medical deficiency)

For stuff like Vitamin D, it depends on where you live. For example, in Portland, OR[1], it's very sunny during the summer months, but there is very little sun during the fall, winter and spring. I remember reading that even if you spent all day out in the sun during the summer months, it would be impossible to store up enough Vitamin D to last the rest of the year.

And on the 'real, medical deficiency' front, there are many debates as to what optimum levels are for some vitamins and minerals. Nutrition is the one area where some things seem very unsettled (e.g. All fat is bad! No wait only some fat is bad! No wait eating fat doesn't necessarily make you fat! etc). [ And even then a real, medical deficiency may just mean that your body is degrading vs. operating efficiently. E.g. maybe taking Vitamin X will help your body digest and absorb food better, but you don't need it to keep living so there is no real, medical deficiency. ]

[1] Used Portland as an example, because I remember reading about this.

That's why milk companies in Sweden (total fucking darkness for 6 months every year) have to enrich milk with less than 1,5% fat with Vitamin D. It's actually a requirement by law.

Vitamin D enrichment is required for most milk in the USA, and according to wikipedia virtually all first world countries have a similar law.

Alas, some of us are lactose intolerant or just don't drink milk. So we supplement with vitamin D pills.

Note: Sweden does not have total darkness for half of the year. Firstly, 85% of Sweden is below the arctic circle, and does get daylight every day. Secondly, the 15% that is above the arctic circle is the most remote and least populated part of Sweden. Thirdly, even above the arctic circle in wintertime, it seldom actually gets dark as you might imagine; the sun is just below the horizon much of the time, and you merely get a sort of twilight/early morning light.

Portlander here, my doctor recommends that all of his patients take a low-dose vitamin D supplement because a large percentage of them would show subclinical deficiency on blood work if tested, somewhere over 40 percent, with the rate increasing the darker your skin is.

The claims for Vitamin D as an exception (without any strong scientific backing) seem to support the parent:

"someone, somewhere at some time was pushing them as an amazing cure"

I've also heard a GP (who I personally respect) say they prescribe Vitamin D as a convenient placebo for common fatigue-type symptoms.

Vitamin D is a useful, necessary nutrient that many people are deficient in. Supplements are useful for those people.

(http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/vitamins-minerals/Pages/Vitamin...)

That GP should be reported. They're not following NICE guidelines for CFS, and they are failing their patients. It's easy to mock people with chronic fatigue and laugh about sending them away with a placebo, but that's abuse and should be stopped. That GP clearly doesn't want to treat them, which isn't fine but understandable. But that's why we now have primary mental health teams to refer people onto.

(http://publications.nice.org.uk/chronic-fatigue-syndromemyal...)

Fatigue is a non-specific symptom and is not necessarily chronic (fatigue is only classed as chronic after 4 months -- according to the article you linked).

Nobody was laughing about it or mocking: we were discussing medical ethics quite seriously, and the medical value of placebo.

As I understood, the GP only applied this to situations where by-the-book they would have to send people away unmedicated and dissatisfied.

Although you might reasonably disagree with their methods, the GP felt quite strongly about it: believing that showing care in such a simple, non-harmful way early led to fewer chronic cases.

I apologise for my earlier snappy tone. I agree that I over-read too much into your post.

Vitamin D deficiency is pretty widespread even in extremely 'sunny' countries such as Australia ... http://www.abc.net.au/science/articles/2012/06/12/3522708.ht...

The supplements he listed (D3, Omega 3, Iodine) actually all have huge amounts of empirical data from a diversity of sources over a long period of time associating them with positive outcomes and improved health. These are not considered "miracle cures", in fact they have gained widespread acceptance amongst medical professionals including GPs as standard best practice to recommend to patients, even if they have no specific medical ailment. It would be unwise to not take these 3 supplements, period.

Omega 3 has been linked to prostate cancer.

http://www.cnn.com/2013/07/12/health/salmon-cancer-time

I've been recommended to take these three (D3, Omega 3, Iodine) by my own GP, but I'd still be really interested in being able to read some of your mentioned sources. Any chance you could make a list?

Conclusion Overall, omega-3 PUFA supplementation was not associated with a lower risk of all-cause mortality, cardiac death, sudden death, myocardial infarction, or stroke based on relative and absolute measures of association.

http://dx.doi.org/10.1001%2F2012.jama.11374

That's not the only reason why Omega 3 is prescribed.

> you take those vitamins because someone, somewhere at some time was pushing them as an amazing cure. A couple studies were done, data was likely cherry picked, and now you pay money to some company to give it to you. That company makes very sure that beneficial studies are done as often as possible.

I didn't state my reasons for taking them and you have no idea what they are. This is a strawman.

I read his comment's "you" as the indefinite pronoun, not as a personal attack.

> one takes those vitamins because someone, somewhere at some time was pushing them as an amazing cure. A couple studies were done, data was likely cherry picked, and now one pays money to some company to give it to them. That company makes very sure that beneficial studies are done as often as possible.

Speaking as someone who takes a few rather carefully chosen supplements, it's possible that some people take dietary supplements in that way, but I don't. So saying that "one" does those things doesn't ring true for me, either.

I take a multivitamin sometimes to be sure I still get various nutrients even if they're not in my food. This may or may not be true, but it's an entirely different thing from taking supplements as a cure for anything. The article did a poor job of arguing against my use case. It just showed how foolish cure-alls are.

you take those vitamins because someone, somewhere at some time was pushing them as an amazing cure.

I take Vitamin D personally because a blood test showed that I was Vitamin D deficient and my doctor recommended that I take 1000 I.U. of Vitamin D daily to bring myself up to a non-deficient state.

> people often get snagged into some 'holy grail' vitamin (free radicals being the newest)

Why would somebody want to eat free radicals? Do you mean antioxidants, which are supposed to destroy free radicals?

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