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Comment by pessimizer | Hacker News Reader

>if you start giving men maternity leave in the same way as women

I agree.

>Normal banter between men about women kept on the "acceptable in a sitcom" when not directed at any specific women, in my view is not sexual harassment, but clearly some people disagree with that.

I definitely disagree with that at work. If you want to discuss your sexuality, comment on people's body parts, or articulate your unified theory on the differences in the natures of men and women, get some friends. People have to work in order to eat - allow women (and men) to get through it without having to constantly bite their tongues or else be seen as the problem. We've made a decision as a society that racial, sexual and religious discrimination are problems at work. Find another subject.

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> allow women (and men) to get through it without having to constantly bite their tongues or else be seen as the problem

Right. Bite my tongue and put on the kid gloves. Wouldn't want to discuss last nights episode of Game of Thrones in the break room, less be seen as a sexist jerk. People do have friends at work, and normal human interactions do take place there.

People also have sex with people they know from work. Should they have it at work? If you can't find something to talk about at work other than how hot some naked woman on tv was last night, they're not giving you enough to do.

If your friends at work refuse to meet you away from work for your crucial sex talk, they may be uncomfortable with it too. If your self-righteousness is because you feel put upon by not being able to say what you want when you want, I entirely lack sympathy.

>If your friends at work refuse to meet you away from work for your crucial sex talk, they may be uncomfortable with it too.

If someone is uncomfortable with something they should speak up. If someone says they are uncomfortable with something that should be respected (within reason).

Its not that hard when everyone just behaves as adults instead of spoiled sheltered children who cannot communicate with each other

I can't imagine why people wouldn't want to speak up so other people can judge whether or not their discomfort qualifies as "reasonable" eyeroll

I only said that because you can't prevent all discomfort to everyone. Its not possible and there's a good chance fixing one persons discomfort will just make someone else uncomfortable, hence within reason.

And even so they should still speak up. Even if someone has some unreasonable discomfort (ie it makes me uncomfortable when you wear red) it may be so minor that it can easily be avoided. You couldn't expect people to not wear red, but if a co-worker said that to me i'd probably just try to not wear red.

Without communicating/talking about it, reasonable or not, there is absolutely no chance of the situation getting better.

If you can't discuss last night's episode of GoT without being seen as a sexist jerk, you might be a sexist jerk. The fact you keep suggesting you have to "put on kid gloves" suggests you might be a sexist jerk.

More of an insensitive libertine than a sexist. I cannot control what other people say, think or do. I can only control how I react to those situations. This makes it crucial to self sensor being offended more than being offensive. I agree with a lot of what this thread is about, but also am aware that overcompensation is also present. Being offended to a point as to intend to change someones behavior is a form of exerting moral authority. It is rare that this is not itself a form of discrimination. "I have zero tolerance for intolerant people."

I agree there is a place and time for everything. However, true friends are rarely made in polite company. I prefer to work with friends.

Well, if the comments are not different for men and women - as in, you're not actually trying to say something not in the words (winkwink) and it's appropriate for the level of relation, and if you respect if someone tells you some comment was not so great, you should be fine with most woman of the technical inclination, I'd say.

It's a subtle thing, really. One person can make remarks about women and shoes and it's funny because we know that's not his real opinion, another does it and it's offensive because he thinks it's true. It really is about what your real opinions and intentions are.

It really is about what your real opinions and intentions are.

Perhaps step one should be "find out their real opinion and intention". But too often people just go straight to "thermo-nuclear melt down".

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