Comment by nr0mx | Hacker News Reader

Comment by nr0mx | Hacker News Reader

Puts this in an entirely different light, doesn't it:

Even when ostensibly not functioning, the Xbox One can run in a low-powered state, ready to be snapped on at a moment's notice. That's something Microsoft was showing off last week as an asset. The only on-switch Microsoft showed for waking the machine from its low-power state was a voice command... "Xbox On." The Xbox One could only hear that if the Kinect was already, always listening. The idea that the Kinect might always be listening got people reaching for their tin foil or vowing to not let an Xbox One into their home.

Microsoft is now seeking to calm concerns that the new Kinect might spy. "We are designing the new Kinect with simple, easy methods to customize privacy settings, provide clear notifications and meaningful privacy choices for how data will be used, stored and shared," the Microsoft rep told me.

"We know our customers want and expect strong privacy protections to be built into our products, devices and services, and for companies to be responsible stewards of their data. Microsoft has more than ten years of experience making privacy a top priority. Kinect for Xbox 360 was designed and built with strong privacy protections in place and the new Kinect will continue this commitment. We’ll share more details later."

http://kotaku.com/xbox-ones-kinect-can-turn-off-microsoft-sa...

Not sure I'd want the Xbox One in my house after this fiasco.

> We are designing the new Kinect with simple, easy methods to customize privacy settings, provide clear notifications and meaningful privacy choices

    Do you want your information to be given to the NSA?
    [ ] Yes
    [X] Yes

Answer "Yes" to send information to the NSA or "No" if you have something to hide.

*Answering "No" will flag your account for review by the NSA.

The joke is that that's probably not a joke.

I guess it's one or the other.

No no. It is like this:

  Do you agree that your information will given to the NSA?
    [ ] Yes, I agree
    [X] No, I don't mind.

That would be funny if it weren't true. :(

Since the Xbox camera is connected to the console via a cable, you can verify whether data going over the wire. If the Xbox is off, you shouldn't see traffic. It's a /bunch/ different from traffic in a data center, which is essentially untraceable and can be cloned at many points.

Frankly I'd be more concerned about the microphones contained in ubiquitous and nearly unexaminable devices such as cell phones, and to a lesser degree laptops. (I imagine that many laptop mics are USB devices, so their traffic should be visible to drivers, the drawback being that once the traffic is on the mainboard, where it goes is less traceable).

I would expect, if this was even possible, that it wouldn't be turned on by default but only when requested. Otherwise, it would be too east to catch for the reasons you mention.

In addition to what was stated by RexRollman it can easily store video/audio to be sent only at the next start of the xbox. "Downloading update" or "Syncing savegames" and no-one is going to notice the encrypted few megabytes of MP3 compressed audio.

They wouldn't need to listen all the time, and how would you know when it's the right time to look? And even then most people won't be able to verify.

Not quite. You activate the xbox using a voice command. Unless the kinect has a speech processor in it (which is incredibly unlikely), then it is very probably sending the sound to the xbox.

So you will [again, this is speculation] be seeing constant traffic flowing across the USB cable.

Easy workaround would be to put it on a power strip or similar, and just switch it hard off whenever you're not using it. No amount of cleverness is going to make it able to spy on you without electricity (assuming any battery would be rapidly spotted by teardowns). As a bonus, you'll save a little electricity too.

Not that we should have to do this....

In addition to that, you can purchase smart power strips that detect the drop/increase in power on one plug and turn off/on the other plugs.

I've been using one of these for several years now for our entertainment center. You just have to be sure you turn off any devices you don't want the power hard cut from before you turn off the television.

I wonder if there's a market for a power strip of this type that also presents a standard serial/USB UPS interface to the hardware, giving it a grace period to shutdown before the hard kill.

HDMI-CEC is probably the more appropriate interface for something like this.

Holy cow. I can just imagine having one for the kids, then trying to avoid talking about anything important in the living room, then...

It's a telescreen. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telescreen)

Welcome to Brave New 1984.

It's almost as if the device was designed with surveillance in mind.

Someone definitely had the telescreen in mind over there. Scary.

It was, targeted advertising, or at least that's the excuse.

http://consumerist.com/2013/07/08/the-xbox-one-will-use-kine...

http://bgr.com/2012/06/12/microsoft-xbox-kinect-targeted-adv...

Well considering targeted advertising is fundamentally based on surveillance, it's pretty much the same thing.

The photons look about the same to me. At the other end of the data hose, someone is using information about me for their benefit. Governments are one form of enterprise by which individuals may strive to accumulate and express power, corporations are another.

I am ambivalent in regards to ranking one over the other because I cannot file a FOI request with Microsoft or Google or Apple or HP or Yahoo, etc.

Microsoft just makes great headlines, particularly in the tech community where people such as myself, who very likely never planned on purchasing an Xbox One can express outrage over its design. I thought the architecture was crap from the beginning.

The threat is to democracy. If corporations violate your privacy, democracy is not in serious danger.

If the government does, democracy is.

On the bright side, the government might actually start taking the NSA concerns seriously if it starts having a detectable effect on the profitability of one of the country's most important growth industries. It seems like it's already becoming a reality in terms of foreign markets, but a reasonably large domestic boycott of a marquee next generation console would be bigger.

This is probably the most important point in the whole thread. Honestly, the debate about whether the new X-box will spy on you or not is irrelevant. In fact, it would be even better if there were a massive boycott and Microsoft weren't even guilty. They'd be in the position of knowing it isn't true and having no way to prove it. I'm sure they'd have a very large interest in getting things like PRISM shut down at that point.

I agree. sadly, i doubt that many people would care about privacy concerns.

an always on microphone, with fixed hardware and software, phoning home at regular intervals has a big target sign painted on it.

Yeah it's insane to think that anyone would own some kind of device that has a microphone and camera accessible by a third party, right?

I mean what's next, they're going to make these things small enough that we can carry them everywhere?

As long as you control the device, there's nothing to fear.

Grab the source, build it and install it yourself. If your device doesn't support it, buy one that does. If you can't do it yourself, get used to be screwed in this brave new Orwelian world.

It's a low level, hardware only capability. It'll even work when the Xbox isnt connected to the internet. You're making an unfounded statement that simply because the XO can listen for an "on" command while hibernating that it's being used to listen and transmit everything it sees and hears. This is explicitly not true and again, just your personal unfounded fear-mongering assertion.

He never said it -does- transit data, and is just implying that it -can-.

Why mod the parent down? There is no proof that it won't, is there? If Microsoft come out with a clear statement (no doublespeak), then I'll believe them. Until then, burden of proof required from Microsoft. As of today, I trust none of the big players, and your venacular of "scare mongering" won't change the burden of proof either.

How can you call it a "fear-mongering assertion" given everything that's been revealed recently? It's certainly well within the realm of possibility even if some might find it unlikely.

This is exactly, literally the device imagined by Orwell in 1984, which he called a telescreen.

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