The CIA and a secret vacuum cleaner | Hacker News Reader

The CIA and a secret vacuum cleaner

m.apnews.com

77 pointsatestu25 comments

It's pretty striking that a media organization which has almost no restriction on the words it publishes would characterize a torture program that included 183 waterboardings and 180 hours of sleep deprivation as "harsh interrogation"

I've found media organizations will sensationalize the little stuff (to make it news) and de-sensationalize the wording on big stuff. My hypothesis is they want to sound less crackpot. If they call it a "torture regime deserving of the Middle Ages", they are going to lose readers, because it can be hard to take that sort of stuff seriously.

You might be inclined to say, so what, lose readers. But if people don't read it, how do you spread a message?

One can write plain English without sensationalism. Waterboarding someone 183 times is obviously torture. People only use roundabout phrases to describe torture when it's their side that did it.

Conversely, it's easy to see the nature of these bureaucratic euphemisms when others use them:

http://www.theatlantic.com/daily-dish/archive/2007/05/-versc...

Tangential edit: every time I hear "enhanced interrogation techniques" I remember Orwell's classic essay:

If you simplify your English, you are freed from the worst follies of orthodoxy. You cannot speak any of the necessary dialects, and when you make a stupid remark its stupidity will be obvious, even to yourself. Political language -- and with variations this is true of all political parties, from Conservatives to Anarchists -- is designed to make lies sound truthful and murder respectable, and to give an appearance of solidity to pure wind. One cannot change this all in a moment, but one can at least change one's own habits, and from time to time one can even, if one jeers loudly enough, send some worn-out and useless phrase [...] into the dustbin, where it belongs.

https://www.mtholyoke.edu/acad/intrel/orwell46.htm

Worth saying: "waterboarding" is itself a euphemism. A more accurate term would be "drowning", or, to capture the intent of the exercise, "mock execution via drowning".

Just want to say that I love this clarification and I hope you don't mind if I use it in the future

It bothers me that you feel like you'd have to ask; it's the simple truth. The word "waterboarding" is designed to abstract what people are actually doing.

Was just trying to be nice, buddy

Sorry, I wasn't being critical, just emphatic.

It seems brief text-based communication presents fertile ground for misunderstanding ;)

The thing that will really drive them nuts... What if its a really good design?

Edit: I'm not sure what the downvotes are about: I was just thinking that after years of trying to dehumanize the guy into some sort of illegible monster, what if it turns out he's a generally bright, practical, and well adjusted guy who just happend to reach the conclusion that "death to america" was a rational course of action as opposed to an insane whack-job that "hates our freedom"? That might have the tendency to upset their thinking.

Up voting/Down voting here on HN tend to be pretty ridiculous, I wouldn't take it personally. Just engage with the community and try not to give a damn about the votes.

Over time it tends to even out - the early up/down voters tend to be superficial and react quickly, but over the next day or so the system seems to work pretty well. It's like early votes on IMDb - you shouldn't really pay much attention for a week or two, there.

I get what you are saying, but my comment here got up voted, and it isn't really useful. Whereas some more thoughtful but critical comments in my comment history got down voted.

It makes no sense... oh, and criticize Apple and prepare to whatch your karma disappear.

Make an innocent joke, downvote. Make an innocent joke about Apple, upvote.

Disclaimer: My comment history ;)

I'm really curious about what will eventually happen to Mohammed. Does he rot in Guantanamo forever? I thought we were closing it? He's definitely not going to get a trial, I don't believe that for a second. Does anyone have any insight here?

My opinion is that these guys will stay in GB until some president is forced to do something about it. No one is going to voluntarily open that can of worms.

I believe the current situation is that Congress blocked the closure, and Obama has not pushed it as a major issue since then.

He did sign an executive order laying out a high-level plan for transferring the detainees and closing Guantanamo (http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/closure-guantanam...). But it was not implemented particularly quickly, and Congress eventually prohibited further progress on the plan (http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2010/dec/8/congress-deal...).

Does anyone else find it concerning the US have had this guy in custody for about a decade, including torture, and he's never had a trial?

Innocent until proven guilty seems like a farce these days.

I'm fascinated by the lack of any skepticism about their guilt. The public has been shown literally no proof whatsoever that they have committed any offense that warrants their imprisonment, and yet they're imprisoned essentially for life.

This reads like satire especially toward the end

"confirming or denying the very existence of a vacuum cleaner design, a Swiffer design, or even a design for a better hand towel would apparently expose the U.S. government and its citizens to exceptionally grave danger"

Is he being serious?

For the US government, yes.

The person is being sarcastic that US government really claims that, I saw several articles on the subject already, EVERYTHING in Guantanamo is classified, even the color of the towels prisioners use.

The source for that quote is Mohammed's attorney, I feel like he has a bit of latitude to criticize the government. He's also the source for the very sympathetic descriptions of Mohammed in the article.

Not that he doesn't have a point. Its just worth noting the article is a little opaque about the sources.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com