Google To Spend $500 Million To Market Moto X Phone | Hacker News Reader

Google To Spend $500 Million To Market Moto X Phone

forbes.com

52 points0cool63 comments

Don't really see the point in getting another Motorola phone. I paid a premium for my Photon, and it really annoys me every single day with how long it takes to wake up and actually do something, and how often it crashes. That might be due to the fact that I have no choice but to still run Gingerbread, because Motorola decided to lock the Photon to that version.

Because, you know, once a company makes one bad move, its impossible to change. We should only support companies who have never made bad choices or aggravated us personally. Especially those companies whose leadership, product vision and circumstances in general have changed dramatically since the offense.

The Photon came out around a year ago. That's a really short time in terms of corporate lifetimes.

Considering what's happened to motorola over the past year?

It was closer to two years, according to Wikipedia.

I'm eligible for update, so two years at least.

You're right. I seem to have forgotten which year it was. :(

'One bad move' is a charitable way to talk about Motorola. They required signed kernels for their bootloaders, promised unlocking, didn't do it, then promised newer versions of Android and didn't do that either. Then they released a new phone and repeated this.

Today, years after some of these phones were released, they _still_ haven't released the keys so that people can easily run custom versions of Android on their phones and not a year ago they released a software upgrade that kept you on Gingerbread and locked you out of some methods to install custom ROMs.

They will prove they are serious when this phone has Nexus-like hackability. Until then, caveat emptor.

Those are good points, but the comment I was responding to wasn't about them. It was about not trusting the company because of one bad product.

It also wasn't about hackability (your last sentence), it was about the phone simply generally sucking due to lack of updates.

But even if hackability is what you're waiting for, that's my point - if they do eventually provide it, re-evaluate at that time. I'm not sure it's healthy to write them off indefinitely because what you wanted, they didn't provide back then, when the company was obviously very different.

I'd like a minimal smartphone, which comes unlocked or has some other way of assuring I won't ever get into this situation again. I think this is fair, since I have had to live with the consequence. Locking down the OS version of a phone is very much enough for me to never do business with that kind of company again. I would never buy a computer with an OS I couldn't upgrade, and Android phones are computers.

Further, I'd like a phone whose processing power is devoted to Android apps I choose, rather than carrier's undeleteable bloatware. I was hoping for something like a Nexus 5 this year, since the Nexus 4 seemed to have these traits.

I worry that the Moto X would replace a Nexus 5 in their roadmap, and that their desire to compete with the S4 will lead them to mimic it instead of having the kind of product I'd like.

So I see Google focusing so much effort on a Moto phone as a problem for me and what I want, not something to look forward to. Google once had the product I should have bought (Nexus 4), especially at that much lower price point.

I don't believe that Moto is any different now, because I haven't seen them implement better policies. From my POV, the burden of proof is on them to demonstrate they changed, since they decided to screw over me, and everyone else with a Photon. I don't need to give them any more money, unless they are obviously the very best phone available for me, and my wants aren't what people or the carriers apparently want.

A good point. Not very sensible forgoing a good product out of spite. However, I find it acceptable to demand exceptional service and keeping consumer pressure on a company that made poor products until it releases a good one. If you screw up, you have to be way better than the competition, and your promises are dirt.

In that respect, OP's done all right by ensuring that Motorola's past failures are front and center so that they understand the value of doing these things.

That said, the Motorola Photon Q 4G LTE (I'm not making that up) does have an unlockable bootloader so they are making progress.

Yeah, Motorola's much, much further down the rabbit hole than merely one bad move. They live in a constant state of trying to convince everyone that, really, truly, this time it will be different. Motorola gets zero benefit of the doubt from me.

Motorola went through a massive reorg soon after google bought them. They were firing thousands of employees at the time, so it's probable that a lot of bad decision-makers are gone by now.

"Don't really see the point in getting another Motorola phone."

That's why Google is spending $500 Million to market the Moto X Phone

<rumor> I have a guess about the motoX phone: It will have a modular hardware component. Probably something similar to the jolla phone , which is build from two different parts stuck togheter by magnets. One part if your phone , and the other one is a replaceable hardware card.

This also fits the motoX ad saying "design your own phone".

The replaceable part could be designed by anyone, and it opens a lot of places for innovation: think of a microscope, or a fingerprint scanner, or nose on a chip, or high quality audio interfaces ,or unique sensors or any number of niche hardware.

Anyway , i really hope that's the case. If will be really fun to play and design with such phones.

</rumor>

That idea reminds me a lot of the Springboard modules on the old Handspring PDAs. (I had a Handspring Prism and an AT&T CDPD wireless data module -- it was like having a clunky smartphone back in 2001.) It would be interesting from a hacker perspective, but it would certainly be counter to the recent trends of making phones more monolithic (i.e. can't even replace the battery).

Could you surf the web with it in 2001 ? if so very cool.

Yes, indeed. The CDPD network was sluggish and spotty, but that was my first taste of being able to look up important information (maps, etc.) on the web while on the go.

All the current rumors on the phone point to boring superficial changes like color and customized wallpapers (for real). They're not spending $500mil advertising a phone for hardware geeks.

But if they designed it with 5/10 optional popular hardware modules , and marketing about future modules that will come from community, this could really appeal to early adopters , and people with specific niches that need to be filled.

And technically , if this is the right way to build more innovative phones, it has a good chance to win in the general population.

I don't think a manufacturer is going to embrace double-walling when thinness is desired by consumers.

A lot depends on how thicker this would be and what the users will get in return.

A hacker's phone! This sounds like a great idea, but it's probably too innovative to be designed by Moto and too risky to be sent into production by Google.

A toned down version though, which like the Jolla adjusts the background and user experience based on the color/style of the case - that I could definitely see.

BTW, where did you learn that the Jollo phone is held together by magnets?

Not sure where i learned about magnets. Just did some web surfing around this.

Too risky for google? why ?

They seem like a company who takes risks.see: automated cars, internet balloons, google wave, competing with amazon on fast product shipping.

Too risky for a half-billion dollar ad campaign for "flagship" hardware. Google, while not exactly risk-averse, can be a stingy company in some respects. Everything else you mentioned came out either labeled "beta" or "an experiment" with comparably smaller marketing budgets (if any).

Yes, exactly. They will have to sell millions of these. There is no way they can afford to do anything risky. It has to be faster, lighter, thinner and more desirable.

I look forward to being annoyed with a Moto X ad every time I use a Google service.

or maybe they're realizing that samsung Is starting to compete with google on the OS so they need to compete with samsung on the hardware. This ways samsung will never be in a position to impose its new OS.

From what I've read, the main feature is a low power, always on, sensor array. My guess is that this phone will break new ground with comprehensive and novel Google Now integration, and push further towards the goal of a device that actively assists its user. Think of it as a robotic system that is integrated into the growing AI/expert system service that is Google.

Slowly, Google is transforming into Apple faster than Apple can transform into Google.

Sponsored by the NSA? Some of the weird tech acquisitions start making sense when the NSA is factored in; Motorola, Skype, anything else? It's completely possible in this time and age to have back-doored hardware in Motorola phones, so I think everyone should advice against buying those.

If I recall correctly Skype was working with the NSA before it was acquired by anyone.

Microsoft changed Skype's architecture drastically, which helps making wiretapping easier. See HN discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4254925

Wiretapping was possible even before MS has re-engineered Skype. The main reason behind using central servers is to increase reliability and decrease power usage on mobile devices (as they do not need to serve as supernodes anymore).

The article does mention that the p2p functionality was impossible to wiretap if both parties were in a secure network. So yes, the super node made 100% of Skype vulnerable.

>Wiretapping was possible even before MS has re-engineered Skype.

Wrong. Skype was bullet proof, completely end-to-end encrypted, before the MS takeover.

Do you have a source for this?

Before Skype was acquired by Microsoft, several news articles suggested that it was possible for Skype to allow governments to monitor conversations.

http://www.h-online.com/security/news/item/Speculation-over-...

No, by the time MS acquired them they were already wiretappable (if this is an existing English word).

This is not completely true. Even back then, certain computers running skype could become "super nodes" that handled incoming connections to devices e.g. behind NAT. All you needed to do to wiretap was become one of these nodes, which wasn't hard to do.

But yes, if you made sure neither computer had NAT and used no super nodes it was possible to be pretty protected (except for the problem that PRISM is tied to the network hardware and can read anything anywhere on the internet).

Darpa also put out a contract before the MSoft acquisition to try and break into Skype Calls properly...

So what are we suppose to buy?

Maybe a HTC or other non-US device with CyanegonMod would be a better choice.

I'm currently using a Nokia N900. I have a brand new N9 in reserve if that one croaks.

After those I'm seriously considering moving back to a super primitive phone.

Nothing really smart, but adequate to make phone calls, send an sms and maybe containing a small, built in calendar.

Maybe keep a relatively cheap, WiFi capable smart phone to take on vacation in order to avoid dodgy internet cafes, when I want to send mail, book a flight, or reserve a hotel room on the go.

It has not even so much to do with the recent scandals (alas I am very privacy concious, I "deleted" my Facebook account and try to avoid Google as far as possible), but with the fact that the recent generation of smartphones, be it Android, or IOs, seem to own me and not vice versa.

I have not the faintest idea what's going on, what is installed and who relentlessly sucks up my most private data.

Sure, that doesn't work for everybody, but if I look at my own usage patterns I honestly believe it's fine for me. And the inconvenience far outweighs that queasy feeling I get with newer smartphones.

Motto phones already phone home all your credentials, remember? Even without the nsa asking probably.

This should've been called the Google X Phone not the Moto X Phone.

This could be a good win for Google if they do it properly.

I hope they compete on price. $600 phones are ridiculous.

I'd gladly pay 1k for decent battery (2 days actual use) and a keyboard. No &$@#+=! Soft touch "buttons" for back, etc.

What phone do you use? And whats it typically used for?

i still have a nexus one with a extended seidio battery. the original battery, since day one, when it reaches 20% the phone shut off. typical google hardware quality... using swype since day one. i think I would have been back to dumb nokia phone if it wasn't for swype. ...after i spend weeks creating a custom linux "language" for it. (select a language you don't have a dictionary for, and create all commands manually in the custom user dict)

I mostly use the phone for GPS and reading email. i'd reply to emails as well, but too painful. Often i have to use it to comunicate or type things. it's not a hardcore usage. i don't even use SSH much on it. It took me 2 years to find out that car chargers are crippled by apple deals and did not charge my phone correctly, so using it as GPS plugged in, i could only get 6h of use. After a little soldering to get a proper car charger, i get a little more, but the phone burns hot.

wife and everyone at work has the samsung ones (s3, s4 and note2) the note 2 i simply can't use for 2 min without pressing the back button accidentally! my nexus one is the opposite. i can't activate the damn buttons one the first try! ever! some people even try and try and just handle me back so i can press the soft button for them (have to press with the 'meaty' part of the finger for it to work).

anyway, i will probably set for the S4 active (with lower camera, cpu and much inferior screen, but at least slightly rugged and has actual buttons)... because a GSM android phone with a qwerty keyboard is non-existent.

i hold my breath at launch for the backflip. excellent keyboard! until i realized it had the worst cpu ever, and as of today, it only runs android 1.5

for good historic phones i've used with good keyboard, #1 was a nokia 6820 http://www.gsmarena.com/nokia_6820-565.php (maybe same as e70)

I'm still carrying around a nexus one as well. Did you have to deal with the broken power button issue? Every day I feel like an idiot having to plug it in, unplug it and plug it in again in just the right way to get it to short circuit on again...

I like my Nexus 4's soft touch buttons, thanks. It really depends upon personal taste.

Nexus 4 doesn't have any soft keys, it has the onscreen UI

$600 telephones might be ridiculous. $600 cutting-edge computers that fit in your pocket? Seems totally justifiable.

Tell me one thing you do with a $600 computer that fits in your pocket that you cant do with a $200 computer that fits in your pocket.

Play Bad Piggies.

I swear to god the phone is about to melt down when this thing is done. It must be working every CPU and GPU at 101%.

Run the auto-updated version of an app, that uses twice the RAM to do the same work the previous version did.

This x100. Thought it was just me. Over 6 month period of time my phone went from snappy to laggy, with really no new apps installed - just updates.

It of course depends on a lot of factors, but a number of Android devices have performance degradation over time, so it can't always be blamed on app upgrades. See for example: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.grilledmon... and googling whatever specific device you have for the thousands of other people with the same problem.

Hmm. Only the $600 computer has the feature that I feel better that I am not contributing toward a race to the bottom in computer design.

That is very nice of you. I try to buy things that I actually need and use, so to me the $600 pocket fitting computer is still pretty ridiculous.

They can't be made for less so if the value isn't there for you, stay out of that market (I never have or will bought a 3D TV for this reason). Buy your "dumb phone" and be happy.

U think they will be able to position themselves on a satisfied market like this? I don't think they will make it!

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