Linux developer Seth Vidal killed in Hit and Run accident on his bike.
wral.com
wral.com
I'm not sure how to describe it but I'm sitting here in front of my Linux desktop feeling really really uneasy. I tend to laugh off the accident these days but it's really hitting me that I could have been dead and not be able to write this post.
I am too scared to ride a bike in Boston, but I always make sure to check twice before opening my car door after parallel parking.
Be safe, bikers of HN.
Not true. However I agree with all the other safety tips.
Cycling is as dangerous as walking (as a pedestrian). Source - http://www.ctc.org.uk/sites/default/files/file_public/cycle-...
I just looked up the scene of the accident at 1700 Hillandale Road, Durham on Google Street View. If you're on a bike there's nothing for you - you're like a slow engineless motorcycle. This is _very_ dangerous.
Google "agenda 21 bike lanes" for the sad details. There was a good New York Times story on this, too. [1]
[1] http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/04/us/activists-fight-green-p...
http://www.ctc.org.uk/sites/default/files/file_public/cycle-...
Edit:
>mainly ride the bike where there is little traffic anyway
This. Use cycle paths that are off the (car) roads. It more pleasant and safer, and you can usually go faster too, as there are no traffic lights.
Here[1] is an interesting video on how the Dutch got their bicycle paths.
From the intro:
"The Netherlands has the world's largest number of cyclists, but it is also the safest place in the world to cycle. That is largely because of the perfect cycling infrastructure that can be found throughout the country. How did the Dutch get this network of high quality cycle paths?"
I know a good number of bike commuters in Boston and we've all gone down at some point, some in worse ways than others, but I don't think anyone has been doored too badly, which was always my biggest fear. In my case, I was hit from behind while riding with my lights on in a bike line (Somerville Ave) and thinking I was hyperaware of the cars behind me (the car drove off, but I'm pretty sure it was a drunk driver from the erratic driving). In a friend's case, a police car without its sirens on in JP blasted through a red light and hit him head on. Both of these accidents and most of the serious bike incidents I know of occurred at night. I'm actually more afraid of darkness than doors nowadays.
http://www.wral.com/bicyclist-killed-in-durham-hit-and-run/1...
Witnesses told police that the car, a late-1990s or early 2000s model, slowed quickly and swerved before hitting Vidal and continuing north on Hillandale Road.
besides, most of the time there is no responsibility for the driver (I advice you to browse through "cyclist hit" articles on some pro-cyclist sites).
Story usually goes like this: I also were hit by a car last year. No responsibility for the driver. As I was unconsious the driver was free to tell anything. It ended with police determinig that I was cycling peacefuly and suddenly my front wheel fell off. If you wonder why I didn't go to court, my aunt is a judge, I asked her opinion and she convinced me thet I would just waste money - a person she knows personally takes care of those types of cases (main court - after which you might not appeal anymore), and she just doesn't like cyclists, so she makes sure drivers don't get "abused". (Poland, "Województwo Łódzkie" region) - that case is NOT special, simmilar stuff happens all over the world.
More seriously, how do you think we can change driving culture from what you describe to something more like they have in Holland?
Seriously?
That said, I doubt if it's most accidents. Here in Boston, where the roads are all pretty terrible, there are bicycle accidents all the time. The roads are bad enough with just cars on them, but throw bicyclists into the mix and it's downright scary. I drive, and dealing with bicyclists is a nightmare. For every rule-following bicyclist, there are 10 who change lanes side-to-side, who pass on the right through an intersection (this one drives me crazy), blow through stop lights thinking that a quick glance for traffic is enough.
Unfortunately every year someone gets hit around here, usually by a bus. I haven't read much about any intentional accidents--usually it's a bicyclist that tried to pass a bus on the wrong side and the bus turned (wide turning radius). Or blowing through an intersection against a red when they didn't realize that it wasn't clear. It's terrible, but not "intentional". Maybe it's different elsewhere, but saying that most accidents are intentional seems...bold?
The more likely scenario here is that the driver was distracted, did not realize that there was a cyclist in the lane - perhaps made worse by lanes narrowing - and slowed quickly and swerved to try to avoid the accident.
It seems especially unlikely that this was intentional when he turned himself in the next day.
Of course, yes it does happen that drivers try to scare or even harm cyclists for fun or because they believe that cars should be the only road users. But I don't think that's what happened in this case.
This really makes me feel sorry for people who live in countries that do not encourage cycling.
I was born and raised in The Netherlands. Every Dutch friend and family member of mine learnt cycling as a small child. Many of them still cycle daily without a helmet, special clothing, or whatever. I cannot remember anyone having a serious accident. Two persons I know broke their arms, but in both cases there was no car involved (icy roads).
The difference? We have bicycle lanes. Many of them. They are often separated from the main roads. When there are lights, there are often separate bicycle lights. Besides that, laws are highly in favor of pedestrians and cyclers. For instance, a car driver is always responsible for paying 100% of damages of children under 14 and 50% of damages of those over 14. So, if a 40 year old cyclist is hit by a car, and 75% responsible for the accident and the car driver 25% responsible, the car driver still pays 50% of the damages of the cyclist. One of the results is that drivers of motorized vehicles tend to be more careful.
tl;dr: ask your government to make more cycling lanes and pass laws that favor pedestrians and cyclists.
But there are enough bikes around that the drivers are always aware of them. And usually the drivers themselves are bike riders, or at least mostly everyone in their families is.
I am stealing this soapbox to remind everyone (I assume some are cyclists):
* Never ride on the sidewalk, ever.
* Never ride against traffic.
and finally, I don't know how to enforce this without a flamethrower/rocket launcher:
* Do not let cars force you off the road. You have the right to a full lane. A car may not ride beside you in the same lane.
We read about cyclists following the rules getting hit by idiot drivers and think it might be safer to ride on the sidewalk. Maybe statistics shows more cyclists get injured on the road than on the sidewalk.
However, this anecodote is apt. More pedestrians get hit by cars on sidewalk than in the middle of the road. This does not mean pedestrians should walk in the middle of the road. Similarly, more cyclists get injured while riding on the road. That does not mean you should ride on the sidewalk.
Every time there's a bike story on HN, there's always a long side thread about bicycles not stopping at lights, going the wrong way down one way streets, etc etc, so I'm curious what happens in a place with mature infrastructure.
Pretty much the same things. Even as a cyclist I am amazed what other cyclists pull off wrt. to violating traffic rules.
But I think the difference is that most car drivers are or were also cyclists and the law favors cyclists, so car drivers tend to pay attention at intersections.
I had an uncle suffer a fracture as well while riding (or better falling from) a bike. No cars were involved
So I'd say it is dangerous depending on the speed and terrain.
Riding a bike with speed and on terrain that outrun your riding skills
Being hit by a car driven by someone not paying enough attention
2011: bicycling deaths in the US: 677 [3]
The deaths in the Netherlands have an interesting distribution. Nearly 2/3 of them are people over 60.
[1] http://www.cbs.nl/nl-NL/menu/themas/gezondheid-welzijn/publi...
[2] (English) http://bicycledutch.files.wordpress.com/2013/04/road-deaths-...
So if we assume those numbers are right that gives 200 deaths in Netherlands for 15,000 million km cycled per year (16.5 * 2.5 * 365) ; versus US where there were 677 deaths for 3,650 million km (100 * 0.1 * 365).
This makes cycling in US 25 times a dangerous as Netherlands: Netherlands has 1 death per 75 million km cycled while US has a fatality every 5.3 km.
In comparison, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_motor_vehicle_deaths_in... says 1.16 fatalities for cars per 100 million vehicle miles travelled, so one death every 86 million kilometers -- safer than cycling in Netherlands by distance, much safer than cycling.
Another page with similar calculations: http://cyclinginfo.co.uk/blog/734/cycling/cycling-rates-by-c...
shows 5.8 cyclists killed per 100 million km cycled in US, versus 1.1 in Netherlands.
did you mean every 5.3 million km?
[1] http://www.wral.com/man-charged-in-durham-hit-and-run-that-k...
Growing up in former USSR, I, along with other kids, used a bike to get around and for pleasure and have always stayed on the sidewalk (I don't think there were any laws about bikes).
From experience, I feel there's very little chance of injuring anyone, and even if it does happen - it is likely to be much less frequent and much less serious than what we observe with the bikes sharing the road with the cars. On rare occasions (rural locations) where there was no sidewalk - you'd ride towards oncoming traffic, same as what common sense recommends for pedestrians - so that you can see the cars and can avoid them if situation calls for it. That's probably illegal in US, since it appears that bikes here are somehow deemed more like motor vehicles and not pedestrians.
To conclude - I think the status quo is misguided (originally wrote stupid) and dangerous and traffic laws oughtta be changed to put soft squishy humans on two wheels on the sidewalks.
[1] In Oxfordshire, UK -- this may be inapplicable to the US.
The way I see it - if my 13 y/o daughter takes a bike to go to convenience store a couple of blocks down the street to get some ice cream with friends - I sure hope she breaks the traffic laws and stays on the sidewalk.
But I live in Chicago and, like you, used to think that it would be safer to be on the sidewalk because of the really stupid drivers that we tend to have here. A few days after making that decision, I nearly hit a person coming out of their house. There was no way for me to see them and not way for them to see me. As a pedestrian, I've been nearly hit coming around corners and I also barely managed to avoid getting hit from the front by a jackass who wasn't paying attention.
It's just not very safe for the pedestrians. There are so many circumstances where it's impossible to avoid a collision.
Although I will say that I am shitting bricks every time I ride on the street, even if I am on a bike lane. Most drivers are really good and they pay attention, but there are some that are just fucking stupid. They have no idea what the laws are and they think a bike should be on the sidewalk so they drive erratically to get me off the road or they honk and yell at me even though I'm doing everything right.
I suppose I should add the caveat that very young cyclists are better off on the pavement even here. When I take my little sister to the shops, I have her cycle on the pavement. That's because she can't cycle in a straight enough line for the roads to be safe.
Another point is, even if it's a nice sidewalk, you generally can't go as fast as the road because of the danger of running into pedestrians and other random obstacles like fire hydrants, telephone poles, etc.
Yet another point, is that I hear very frequently that it's statistically safer to ride on the street. I haven't found a solid source for this though, so maybe it's not true. Or maybe it's true for a certain style/attitude of biking that doesn't apply to me. In my town, I certainly feel much safer on the sidewalk. Perhaps I have a higher chance of a minor injury on the sidewalk, but I will take that over a lower chance of getting hit by a car.
Generally, my attitude while riding is that I'm a pedestrian who can move a little faster than walking-speed, not an automobile that can move a little slower than driving speed.
I live in an area where population has been vaguely constant since around 1900, so we don't have many subdivisions like that, but I can imagine someone living in Las Vegas or parts of suburban CA may have never seen a residential sidewalk before. For those folks, residential sidewalks are pretty much like urban downtown sidewalks except much narrower, thus the areas with sidewalks tend to ban bicycles on them, there just isn't space for pedestrians to safely share with bikers. Seriously, only like 2 feet wide in spots.
If the US had bike lanes, and bikes didn't choke traffic back to 8 mph as I see them doing every day on major streets, causing a half-mile backup[1], I think the US would be more friendly to bikes.
The problem is a sub-set of bike riders who generally are weekenders and seem to take pleasure in holding up traffic because it makes them feel important. Then in retaliation, there's a sub-set of car drivers who become enraged by this and act out typical road rage, except here it's a 2,000 lb vehicle versus a 48-lb vehicle with no external frame.
I don't think the solution is any of the following:
1. Car drivers suck 2. Bike riders suck 3. We need bike lanes!
I think it's going to require behavioral changes from both car drivers and bike riders, and probably a redesign of cities to be bike-accessible.
Back to the topic at hand: Seth's death is tragic and he will be missed. I think a lot of our rage comes from the frustration at losing someone who was such a talented contributor and also a person many of us admired for his personal traits as well.
___
[1] Montrose, Shephard, Memorial, Elgin and Richmond.
Also, make sure you wear lights at night guys/gals. You can buy cheap red flashers from the dollar store.
I don't ride my bike out on the roads because of the danger of being hit. I often marvel at the courage, audacity, and sometimes foolishness of those who are brave enough to ride their bikes on our roads. There needs to be a stronger push to makes this safer.
Bike lanes should be in every city in the country. Everyone would be better off if there were bike lanes and bike use was encouraged. I realize that this probably isn't OP's intended point, but it's worth mentioning.
Just last week I was almost hit while hogging the lane to make a left into my apartment complex by a car that thought it would be more fun to pass on the left (over the double yellow)... while I was making said left turn.
This was in broad daylight; I can only image what would have been the case had it been at night.
Thanks Jono Bacon for his message: http://www.jonobacon.org/2013/07/09/remembering-seth-vidal/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=wE3gi...
I'm not sure how good Durham is, but I don't think this is the time or place to say that its just more logical to pay to get around your city.
Bicycle.
1, increased numbers of cyclists aid awareness among drivers and others. 2, increased demand helps justify building bike lanes, etc.
Yeah, it's a vicious/virtuous circle situation. It's tough until things improve.
But accusing those working on the cycling side of folly only makes it worse.
In general, the Twin Cities are doing an excellent job of addressing bikeability from many angles.
Heart disease is the leading cause of death in the US [2], and is empirically linked with dietary and lifestyle choices. If you value your life, you should not live in the US.
The leading cause of HIV infection in the US (by a large margin) is male-to-male sexual contact [3]. If you are gay and value your life, you should remain celibate.
Logical programmers will avoid all of these things.
HN, take note.
[1] http://www.city-data.com/crime/crime-San-Francisco-Californi...