More Nootropics: Racetams and Glycinergics
examine.com
examine.com
'Glycerinergics' has only one result on Google - this article. Even if we assume that they mean it in the same way as we talk about GABAergic or dopaminergic drugs the definition they have stated is fundamentally incorrect. Glycerinergic drugs would be those that bind to any of the same sites that the endogenous molecule glycine binds to - not necessarily just NMDAr sites, this is an over simplification. Further more, to say that NMDA receptors are inherently 'stimulatory' is frankly ridiculous. Ligands can be either agonists or antagonists at a given binding site - examples of non-excitatory NMDAr binding drugs would be the arylcyclohexamine family (PCP, Ketamine, PCE etc) and Dizocilpine (MK-801). Finally, 'overall signalling is increased' is almost laughable. 'Signalling' through which neurotransmitters? In what manner? How is 'overall' measured?
While I may not have an absolutely perfect understanding of psychopharmacology, I do know enough not to trust this article - particularly when it is taking about drugs with very little history of human use.
If you are considering using the drugs in this article, it might be advisable to question why. Just because a compound is new, does not mean it is going to be better or the effects more desirable than it's predecessor(s). Of course it is possible that it could be, but it seems likely that in reality you are simply exposing yourself to unnecessary health risks for minimal reward. Would it really be so bad to use Piracetam for a couple of years while the phenyl derivative's action in humans is not well documented? Consider your health and the potential gains carefully and make a rational decision.
But yeah, I'm not sure what's going on here. I guess it's just an announcement that they have added some info about these drugs to their database. To be fair, the article itself isn't really promoting their usage, and the subheading does describe them as "A large amount of somewhat poorly researched compounds." Perhaps there is better information on the actual pages for each substance.
The impression I got from the article was the same as yours - they are not explicitly advocating the use of these drugs, but I don't think they were doing very much to inform the reader of the potential dangers that using any very new psychoactive compounds would entail. Perhaps the real fault here is in the manner that this has been submitted to HN, rather than the article itself? Personally, I think it would be more appropriate and safer to call the submission 'Racetams and Glycinergics of the future' or something similar. As the title currently stands the impression given is that these chemicals are appropriate for use now, by everyone.
If you have a problem with my comments please expand and clearly state your issue. Also, I think it is pretty well accepted around here that you shouldn't reply to the same comment twice. Editing your previous comment to reflect your new thoughts would certainly have sufficed in this case.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21040626
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18641209
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18296328
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22214254
To get useful amounts of it I just take it separately whenever I consume a caffeinated beverage. 250mg-500mg suffices (technically you can dose it in relationship to how much caffeine you are dosing, but since there are no side effects to taking too much l-theanine, I just take 2 and call it good)
(Maybe I'll edit this comment some more below during its editing time window. Or perhaps this point is so evident that it needs no elaboration.)
Did you consult a double-blind study of caffeine before drinking your first cup of coffee? At what point does the plural anecdote at least refute the idea that racetams are just a placebo?
I look at this smart drug crap as a weird cultural thing to study.
If smart drugs made people have better performance, you'd notice your coworkers outperforming you while grimacing down their powdered piracetam. The army would be using them. Doctors would be making statements.
Having used racets at times, I can say they are definitely more than a weird cultural thing.
I caution you to do extensive research on pubmed.gov and at least flip through a few pharmacology and neuroscience books, if you plan on long term use of said racetams. Wikipedia as a last resort or to refresh your knowledge.
They all have different properties and on rare occasions, could have completely opposite effects, depending on the person taking them and their genetic markup. A lot of them act on the glutamatergic pathways, and/or have more obscure/newly discovered methods of action.
For evidence, I offer 'Levetiracetam as monotherapy or add-on to valproate in the treatment of acute mania-a randomized open-label study.' at http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18369598 and conversly, 'Acute psychosis associated with levetiracetam.' http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12875956 or 'Levetiracetam: An Unusual Cause of Delirium.', at http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23782757
Levetiracetam was initially approved for seizure control. I hope you can see from the above mentioned papers that while it can also help someone 'calm down', it can bring another unfortunate person into a manic psychotic state.
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The best way to try a nootropic or a new medication for that matter, is to wean yourself off any other supplements and only try one at a time. You'll also need to have a good understanding of the Cytochrome P450, to be able to avoid enzyme induction or inhibition, if you plan to later on add other supplements to your regimen.
Especially if you will also be taking Rx medication.
You do not want to unknowingly overdose yourself with something or sabotage your 'treatment' by accidentally taking a product that happens to induce the enzyme complex metabolizing one of your other supplements or meds. A supplement or medication that also acts as an enzyme inducer will reduce the time spent in your system of the product's who's metabolism is controlled by said enzyme(s).
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To sum up, before putting stuff in your body, do your due diligence and be wary of relying on anecdotal reports of success with said supplements. Results WILL vary, because every body is unique.
DMAE for example (if I got letters right), if you take it before sleep, it gives you vivid dreams, since it was suppose to help with generation of neural links, then, this would explain effect.
I am still looking and trying to find things that would be helpful without detrimental effects. I should note that anything like adderal I didn't try and don't intend to.
I failed to understand the basics behind this "cognitive enhancer" hype, lets say these stuff "really" works, then why we don't see those multi-billion pharmaceutical companies investing on them? If they would really worked, then I should already find all those pharmacy shops around me teeming with nootropics (assuming they have negligible side effects), right?
BTW, I am actually from south-east asia, here you can buy almost anything (except LSD etc.) without prescription, and we have dozens of pharmaceutical companies outsourcing drugs to the other side of the world. Moreover, if these companies could really come up with something real, then it could be an "instant hit" here.
Modafinil works really well for me (300/400mg keeping me awake and FOCUSED but not buzzing/twitchy) but worked poorly for my brother (no noticeable effect at similar dosage).
Since taking noopept I have noticed more of a willingness and now desire to learn, something which was an issue in my past. It also seems to help me work for prolonged periods of time without getting burnt out. (anecdotal, could well be placebo effect but it works for me!) Feel free to ask me anything.
For particularly taxing times, I have a bottle of oxiracetam that I use in conjunction with the piracetam. It reminds me of the heightened focus I used to get when I had prescriptions for Ritalin/Adderall growing up, yet without all of the nasty side effects. It was great a couple of hours before an exam during my masters program, or in the mornings right after my daughter was born.
I tried pramiracetam once. I got nothing but a bad headache from that.
I have a few samples of noopept around somewhere, but I don't think I've been brave enough to try them yet after the pramiracetam disaster.
Oh, and I've recently added 200mg of huperzine A to my morning regimen. Not sure how much it helps. Seems to be a decent replacement on the weekends when I don't want to take the full cocktail.
I stopped taking that because obtaining it OTC where I live is kind of hit and miss. The drug requires a prescription (generally to treat degenerative conditions common in the elderly) and some pharmacists are more hardline in that respect.
In hindsight, given it's a relatively recent compound and there's so little research on it, I guess it's for the best. I wonder if my "experiments" can have a negative impact in my health, especially my mental health; I hope the estimates regarding the safety of piracetam turn out to be correct.
Piracetam is actually well-researched [1], it's been out since the early seventies. It's the most researched of all of the nootropics, AFAIK. I'm unaware of any studies that resulted in health damage from piracetam, but would, of course, love to read any if there are.
[1] Take, for one example: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=piracetam[Title]
I used to take a much larger, and more structured regimen, and found it very difficult to keep everything balanced, some things increased the consumption of ACH so much that I had to start taking choline supplements, but if I screwed up my timing/doses, I'd hit nasty lows from too much choline intake. I gave up on it, as the only noticeable difference I had from the regimen was a more difficult job of timing, having to have a lot of pills around, etc.
I stick with nootropil due to its well-established safety, and minimal impact on overall chemical balance.
If you are diagnosed by a doctor with a hypoxia-related condition, I would presume you are self-treating with piracetam, because I don't think it would have a great positive impact, unless your condition would be quite severe.
I suggest looking into pentoxifylline (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pentoxifylline) and then re-evaluating your situation with a doctor and whether it would be ok for you to try it. I think you'd see more results with it rather than racetams, maybe except for levetiracetam, which would also require a prescription.
Also, pentoxifylline should probably be almost as cheap as generic piracetam; levetiracetam, even generic, is not however.
Do not take any of these Rx meds on your own, without consulting with a professional.
I know people generally hate going to the doctor, but in some cases they do help :) Think about all the advantages taking only 1 pill for your condition could have, instead of a whole stack, not to mention the financial savings.
I'm not keen on other drugs, as piracetam has been the only one out of the lot I've taken that didn't have other serious side-effects which created problems for me. Pentoxifylline is contra-indicated with other parts of my health profile, you could say.. =)
I've notice entirely no effect from any of this drugs with except of phenylpiracetam.
While I've used phenylpiracetam, I've noticed some effects: 1) I've got more physical endurance (I'm engaging in sports a lot) just from one doze of it; 2) My overall alertness arises; 3) My visual perception became more clear and vivid; 4) I was able to maintain focus for extended periods of time; 5) It was easy to wakeup and harder to sleep down earlier (my brain was like "so much ideas, need to think it all").
When I stop taking phenylpiracetam all of these effects gone away.
This is a fairly effective regimen, for me, for combating fatigue and maintaining focus. I simply keep a bottle of Suntheanine and another of Rhodiola Rosea at my desk and eat them with my morning water or tea. I haven't done any rigorous testing to prove to myself that these things are helping, but I am certainly convinced that they do.
I notice the texture of things more, and I constantly have a need to look at everything in my vicinity. It's not distracting however, and really helps with technical tasks.