Hacker News Reader

Comment by freehunter | Hacker News Reader

Windows Phone does not require an account paired with a credit card.

However, it is VERY restrictive in its Live account interaction.

I had some very ugly experiences setting up one for my cousin (I stupidly didn't lie and registered her as being from Uruguay and under 18), which made the phone behave like a brick ("sorry, no apps available in your country", "sorry, you have to be over 18 under laws from another country to use most of the features of this phone").

Changing the Live account did not work, I had to reset the phone and create another account for her, lying about her age and country so the phone could work properly (she wanted to use Skype and WhatsApp, not exactly the most demanding use case).

That stupidity turned me off Windows Phone for the foreseeable future (although the hardware is top-notch).

That doesn't surprise me. Regional restrictions on apps might not make much sense, but they're well known and exist on every platform. Same with age restrictions. You can't enter into a contract with Microsoft or a third party developer unless you're over 18. It's not just Microsoft that forces this.

"You can't enter into a contract with Microsoft or a third party developer unless you're over 18"

That only applies for the United States and I guess most European countries, but it's not universal.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_of_majority

For example, here in Uruguay, there's a distinction between minors up to 16 years, then they can enter some contracts (for example work contracts, I don't know where downloading apps falls), and they become full adults at 18.

In the U.S. there are some restrictions up to 21 years old, but they can drive at 16 (!). My cousin was 17 at the time I was setting up her phone, I'm not sure, but I guess she might have been legally able to enter a contract with Microsft at the time.

Google is more lax with its settings, or has better lawyers. Also, if you move to another country, you CAN change your settings (it's extremely ridiculous that Microsoft doesn't let you do that).

I can totally understand that Microsoft doesn't want to go over the minutiae of every small nation to see whether someone is eligible or not to enter a contract.

I wonder what Firefox OS will do with all these legal restrictions (offload to the app developers?)

Neither does iOS, for that matter.

It doesn't?

All recent MacBooks I have seen insist rather hard to be paired with an account and a credit card number. I have never done the initial setup of an iOS device, but I would have assumed that it was the same or worse.

No, it definitely doesn't.

iPhone 5 + iOS 6: doesn't know a thing about my credit card, and never will.

Interesting. Can you access any form of store without a credit card and without giving away your identity to Apple? And, just as importantly, can joe/jane user do it?

> And, just as importantly, can joe/jane user do it?

Irrelevant as those users will not care and just punch in their credit card if asked.

That's what I meant by my question: is there any reasonable manner in which joe/jane user could decide to not punch in their credit card and still manage to setup the device?

If by 'form of store' you mean the official Apple store; yes. I've never purchased a single thing from Apple's 'app store' (and don't really plan to). Everything I've needed so far is free.

The identity part? I have an account, so yes, some sort of 'identity' is revealed, but that doesn't relate to the credit card part.

They still do not know a thing about any of my credit cards, from initial setup to everyday use.

I have a 2011 MacBook and my wife has two iPhones, none of which are paired with a credit card.

It's been a while since I set it up, but if I recall correctly you can create your "Apple ID" online and select 'None' for the credit card, then you sign in on your device with that account.

When you're creating an account on the device, I think it may force you pair a credit card though.

Interesting. My experience was that I eventually resigned to giving a fake identity and a fake credit card number to get rid of all the nagging and annoyances. That's with a 2010 MacBook (annoyances appeared during an OS upgrade, if I recall), a 2012 MacBook Pro and a 2013 MacBook Air.

It doesn't force you, but it is pretty insistent. You have to look for options really hard to see how to avoid entering a credit card. But it is possible.

> All recent MacBooks I have seen insist rather hard to be paired with an account and a credit card number.

That is completely untrue, unless you are seeing some weird install of OS X. But you're not, you're making stuff up.

You can skip the product registration and you can skip signing in with your Apple ID and essentially have an "anonymous" install with little effort.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com