Surviving Emacs | Hacker News Reader

Surviving Emacs

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26 pointssilentbicycle24 comments

Interesting article. The thing that stood out the most, though, is that the author is so focused on solving the RSI problem through changing his tools (hardware & software) that I could not find any mention of the single most effective change one can make: an intelligent incorporation of strategic stretching in one's daily routine.

In my case, certain muscles were so tight that my wrists would curl inward while I slept. To solve this, I slept while wearing a cheap pair of wrist-braces that I got at the local pharmacy. During the month or two that I did this, I also performed a half-dozen different stretches specific to the muscles involved.

Sharon J. Butler's book "Conquering Carpal Tunnel Syndrome: And other Repetitive Strain Injuries" saved me. It is from this book that I pulled the stretches that I did. It is also this book that taught me proper stretching technique and what sensations to pay attention to while doing it.

After I learned these basic things, I discovered that my regular keyboard was just fine, and my addiction to emacs was just fine. I was afraid I would have to give up programming and playing the piano. Now all is right with the world.

Interesting aside: I did learn dvorak before I discovered the power of stretching, and I swear it helped a lot. YMMV.

Another data point: I started indoor climbing at a local gym a few times per week(for ~ 20 minutes) and I rarely have any wrist pain nowadays.

I wonder if it's from strengthening your wrists, exercising them in a way that releases tension, or both?

I have the same experience as the op and suggest that it's pretty multidimensional. Climbing puts a lot of stress on your hands and you simply have to both increase strength, flexibility, and overall hand health to climb effectively.

It's kind of the anti-RSI.

I've been using Dvorak (Type 2 with some modifications such as mapping the various types of parens to alt gr + homerow) for the last few months and it's helped me a lot, too. More than I expected, actually. The last few weeks I've been working very long hours due to ending up double-booked with customer projects (one got delayed) without any trouble, which wouldn't have been possible previously. The amount of travel is drastically reduced.

It's not the only measure I'm using: I've been using an MS Natural Keyboard Pro for years, which certainly didn't solve the problem entirely.

I haven't noticed correlation with exercise, but I'm willing to believe that doing none at all is bad for you. (I exercise semi-regularly)

Indeed. Typing timers like xwrits (http://www.lcdf.org/xwrits/) and workrave (http://www.workrave.org/welcome/) help, but the thing that's most directly helped me is a series of wrist stretches I learned while studying Aikido (a martial art that involves a lot of wrist joint locks). The names differ from school to school, but searching for "aikido wrist stretches" on youtube etc. should be good enough.

(I use Dvorak, too. I think it helps, but the chorded keys in Emacs are probably the bigger issue.)

Interesting. I did find such a video on youtube, and the stretches appear to be similar to the ones I encountered in Butler's book.

The one video that I sampled, though, was entirely focused on the wrists. One interesting thing about the way muscular tension is networked throughout the body is that when one muscular group is compromised, another will compensate. This ultimately can cause a network of failures, so stretching all of the upper body, at the very least, is important in properly solving the RSI problem.

I'm sure an ancient art like Aikido addresses the whole body properly, but I thought it worth mentioning.

Aikido's all about moving "from your center", moving your body as a whole. It can sometimes go into mystic-sounding "chi"/"ki" talk, but precisely verbalizing things that often depend on really subtle timing and positioning is hard.

Aikido is actually less than a hundred years old :)

Yeah, when I typed 'ancient' I thought someone would mention that. Can I be saved by assuming that it descended from older forms? ;-)

Heh, I practiced aikido for a while, too. And judo. We used to do a lot of those wrist exercises in aikido, but not in judo. I had no idea they were good for RSI. Thanks!

Ok - I know I may be downmodded for this but wouldn't it just make more sense to switch to an editor that maybe doesn't cause you RSI problems?

All I'm saying is that if you have to go through so much pain and trouble to use a piece of software then just maybe it's not right for you.

Also I'm not suggesting Vi but Emacs has a pretty good Viper-mode that may help with RSI issues. I use EMacs with Viper and I can pretty much work with minor hiccups when I switch from Vim. Just a suggestion.

Yes, it would. People aren't persisting in using Emacs because it's a good editor, but rather because it's an integrated environment for manipulating anything textual (which happens to be scripted in a Lisp dialect). The integration is the important part, and it's integrated in a very different sense than, say, Visual Studio or Eclipse. It just happens to have ergonomically nightmarish default keybindings (and other historical baggage), and a culture that perpetuates them.

I've tried viper mode (I used vim for five years before I started using Emacs, and I still use nvi for quick editing sometimes), but it's against the current of the ten million other settings Emacs has.

I would love to see a real alternative to that facet of Emacs (and would work on one, if I ever got that kind of time...), but vim isn't it. Wily / Acme are closer, perhaps, but they trade complex keybindings for switching constantly between the mouse and keyboard, which is likely worse.

I think you're missing the point. I'm not denying that EMacs is great at what it does (I use it extensively).

However, if I had RSI problems I would switch to something else - it's definitely worth learning a new tool if it helps my health and well being.

Emacs isn't the only source of RSI in the world. It just so happens that none of the emacs users in my office suffer from RSI, and several of the Eclipse users do.

I think it makes more sense to try to fix the problems the way Bill has than to give up on an editor which (we emacs users think) is incredibly productive. Besides, it may be that RSI will follow you to whatever other editor you choose.

That was the case for me, in fact, and I fixed it years ago by switching to a cheapo $30 Microsoft Natural keyboard.

If you're used to vim, vimpulse brings viper mode alot closer.

http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/vimpulse

Thanks - will try it out.

I've had a kinesis keyboard for ~9 years, and after using it for a few weeks I thought it should be required for any emacs user. Putting ctrl-alt (and enter) under your strongest digits just makes so much sense.

You should try out the foot pedals.

Being an owner of a Kinesis as well, I can attest it's one of the best $300 I've spent on anything related to my programming profession.

I'm convinced that most people would be well served to care more about the keyboard they use.

While I've yet to try a Kinesis keyboard, I can attest that TypeMatrix (http://typematrix.com/) keyboards are superb (~ $120). Once you try one, you immediately realize how utterly backwards staggered keys are in the modern world.

HI, You were very lucky to catch the RSI tendency in time.I am a massage therapist who has worked with many RSI "victims." Just to warn others: there is another problem-thoracic outlet syndrome that programmers and others get from too many hours at the computer. If you want to avoid this negative development and RSI, get up every 30 minutes from your computer and get your arms over your head; do the back stroke; bend over and let your head and arms hang down. The nerves get trapped in the chest muscles as they travel down from your neck to your arms and hands. Make sure you stretch your pectorals often: open arms out to sides. LIsten to your pain messages and don't push through pain because you might become disabled. take care.

I agree, do some exercises and stretches and you'll be fine. Also map some of functions you use often to better places. I myself think M-x is an annoying combination so I made it to C-x C-m and find it much more comfortable.

Also to the guy who asked why not use Vim or another editor because it's more comfortable? Come on, it the same reasons all over again. Extensibility is probably the biggest reason. I also can't stand Vim Script (or trying to use Python/Ruby/whatever to script Vim.) And in some cases the Emacs community writes the kind of stuff I like more, modes with really good syntax highlighting and indentation and such.

I find Vim's indentation especially lacking compared to Emacs.

I work as a developer of embedded systems for automotive purposes, and I have got to ask: what fields of programming are you working in where you actually write code for prolonged periods of time? I would say that less than 20% of my time go to actual programming, and probably less than half of that involves typing a lot. More thinking.

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