Hikikomori: Why are so many Japanese men refusing to leave their rooms?
bbc.co.uk
bbc.co.uk
My landlord is a hikikomori. He is around 50-60 years old, and refuses to leave his room in his house; he instead barks orders at his extremely elderly mother (we're talking older than dirt here; I wouldn't be surprised if she was older than 80).
She is a very kind old woman. I was shocked that he sent her to collect water money (we pay to our landlord instead of directly to the utility; they are quite wealthy and generous, so I doubt it is a scheme to extract extra cash from tenants) as I live on the third floor of a building with no elevator.
I found out about he was that way when I went over to their house to pay my water bill; I didn't want to make her walk up all those stairs again for the sake of around twenty dollars. My water heater was kinda-sorta broken from being quite old (probably as old as the building, so 1991).
She thought it was my air conditioner that was broken, and I corrected her. She stood at the open door his dark, shuttered room (this is around noon) and asked him if that was correct. He growled back in an annoyed tone "I TOLD YOU IT WAS THE WATER HEATER!"
Even though I told her it was fine, she apologized profusely, gave me some vegetables, and sent me on my way.
The whole experience was surreal...
That was roughly 20 years ago. This massive wave of underemployed, often-unmarried folks are now in their late 30s. The middle-aged, unemployed, clinically depressed, hikikkomori problem is about to get a whole lot worse in the coming decades (the graduating classes of 2010-2012 were hit really hard too after the financial crisis. This era was called "The Second Employment Ice Age". The class of 2009 was the last class that really had it good in the 2000s.)
So did the internet. You couldn't be a hikikomori before then... you were simply a recluse. That was a psychological condition reserved for the 'crazy old...'
his extremely elderly mother (we're talking older than dirt here; I wouldn't be surprised if she was older than 80).
I found your choice of terms interesting :)
Most people in their 80s that I know seem to be doing fine, are physically and intellectually active, and I wouldn't describe them as "older than dirt" - unless you're talking about somewhat young dirt, here ;).
May I ask how old you are? I am genuinely curious, as I can picture myself thinking of an 80 year-old as "extremely old" when I was in my early twenties, but not nowadays (I'm 35)
Tangent: people think life extension will magically materialize with some singularity type event, but in reality it's a slow creeping thing. The single most powerful life extension technology ever developed is the cardiac bypass, for example.
Some kind of medical intervention that targeted the actual senescence mechanism instead of just the other problems it causes would be an actual game-changer, and I don't see how we could get living past 100 to be very probable without coming up with one.
How do you mean that?
http://harvardmagazine.com/2013/03/a-cardiac-conundrum
> Angioplasty can save the lives of heart-attack patients. But for patients with stable coronary disease, who comprise a large share of angioplasty patients? It has not been shown to extend life expectancy by a day
The rest of the quote is stating the inverse though, that not all angioplasty recipients live longer (converse? meh, you know what I mean). And that it might be over-proscribed. Neither of those have anything to do with it's ability to prolong life in other cases.
There are a very considerable number of people in that age range who are most certainly not really doing all that fine and whose physical and intellectual activity are nowhere near what they once were even ten years prior.
It's hard to know the mental and physical state of another person sometimes through a passing glance or cursory interaction. Sometimes even with more substantial interaction the true nature of their state can remain hidden from you. My grandmother, for instance, who is in her late 70s, experiences chronic pain in her knees. But I wouldn't have known that if my father hadn't told me; she generally does what she can to happily tolerate the severe pain when around family members.
You are old.
I live in Japan and have never seen so much brainwashing on the topic of the unemployed or uneducated.
Besides the term hikikomori there is also NEET (Not Employed, Educated or in Training).
Another shocking thing is whenever an upstanding pillar of the community is shown on TV they go out of their way to mention he is a "正社員", a full time employee.
But when they discuss a criminal they always trot out that he's either "無職", unemployed or at least "派遣社員", a temporarily staffed person.
Even within companies the treatment temps get from the full timers can be cruel and uncalled for.
Until this society is taught to be less caste based I don't think the hikikomori problem will go away.
The implication being that people who're not working full-time are not considered do be part of society?
It has that "I understand what society expects of me and am willing to obey it therefore I'm a model citizen" vibe to it.
If you're not working full time as a formal employee of a company, you are indeed looked down upon.
I have several friends in Japan who earn more from their side gigs (one is an indie musician, another is a designer, another is a programmer) but they all won't quit their day job, saying that it's vital for them to be part of their corporations to be looked upon positively by the rest of society. Hell if you aren't a full employee it's hard to even get married!
I don't know what is good anymore.
IMO it's unhealthy.
It started when I was 12 (probably). I slowly started losing interest in doing things that I enjoyed, even more so about the things I didn't enjoy doing. By the time I was 15 I stopped caring about my future and from a straight A student I became a C/D student. When I started high school that I wanted (we have similar requirements for HS as you would need for college or university in Croatia) things were better for about a year, but I started to fade and become "numb" again. This continued throughout HS, but since my HS was mostly about sciences (physics, maths, computer science) and linguistics, so my grades didn't suffer because I found the topics interesting.
I am a freshman & 20 years old. I am doing better because I sought help, while everyone I lived with (mum and grandmother) thought I was just a lazy, worthless do-no-good. I should also mention that my mum has an "abusive personality," which probably contributed to my depression (and is hindering recovery, in all fairness).
I was lucky to have a best friend since kindergarten, who was observant enough to notice my mental and physical deterioration and supported me to find help (to paraphrase: "i will beat the fuck out of you if you don't get yourself checked for some shit").
I was diagnosed with MDD (Major depressive disorder). I wouldn't say I am good, yet, but I am better than I was a few years ago and I haven't thought about suicide for almost 2 months now (which I did, for 4/7 days, six months ago).
TL;DR: When you are depressed, it seems like the air is thick and heavy, it seems like every ray of light is trying to push you down onto your shadow, it seems like every movement you do is being countered by an invisible force and requires you to use more energy. All your thoughts are polluted with a dark tint. You have no dreams, no hopes, no desires. You just wish to escape. Maybe they are not lazy? Maybe hiding in their rooms are the early attempts of escape, and nobody is noticing their silent cries for help.
P. S: Sorry for the long&sad post.
It's not sad since you sought help! Keep it up, you only have great things to look forward to!
I think it's good for us, whether we've been blessed to have never had to deal with such demons or we've recovered from our own dark times, to be reminded of the fact that there are people out there who are quite like us in most ways who are having a very hard time living from one day to the next.
I'm of the "since recovered" camp and even then, sometimes I forget about the struggles I have had and fail to be as empathetic and understanding as I could be.
I'm always grateful when others are willing to share their not so proudest moments and let us have a peek into their struggles and troubles. It sets me straight again.
So thanks.
However I do agree with you that we shouldn't be branding kids as "lazy" without investigation first.
edit: Not making light of ADHD or my own struggles. Medication and self-awareness helped me improve from a B/C student into an A student. But I do find that as an adult I'm able to function without medication because instead of constant studying for tests I'm constantly learning and applying my knowledge.
Laziness is a symptom, not a cause. It's like diagnosing someone with a "cough". It may be correct, but it's pointless, because it's obvious and tells you absolutely nothing about what to do.
That being said, our ailments could probably be categorized by affecting all aspects of our life equally and in full measure of time (i.e something that doesn't fluctuate across the years is probably an untreated ailment).
A sufficiently self-managing nutter is indistinguishable from a genius.
This is also a perfect description of depression.
In response to sibling comments, I want to QFT this. Laziness, as a diagnosis, has no explanatory power. It's a useless descriptor. It doesn't tell you how to fix it. You can self-diagnose as lazy all you like: that's, wait for it, intellectual laziness.
It is not a sad post: it is hard and REAL. Your life is relevant.
Thanks for the post & my prayers are with you.
Why are 20 somethings without jobs, with minimal face-to-face social skills, average to poor grades and therefore minimal career prospects, confined to their homes when a hyper-competitive, youth loving, cute/adorable/flashy/shiny-thing loving society awaits them outside?
When the alternative is to be involved in the antithesis of your own persona, I can imagine why the slightly less horrifying self-imposed withdrawal is still more attractive than the slightly more horrifying "outside". Despite the blatantly obvious effect it may have on your life.
Source: 2 Close pals in Shiogama living together (one who had to deal with the other's hikikomori ways).
One of the start ups who frequents HN lives in Japan's country side and he's written some interesting blogs and comments on here about how he can go days without seeing another human aside his wife.
But sadly the side of Japan that seems to be exported the most is the futuristic, over-populated scenes from Tokyo and thus many foreigners assume that the whole of the nation is like it.
>Japan that seems to be exported the most is the futuristic, over-populated scenes from Tokyo...
Shiogama, for example, is primarily centered around the fishing industry. You can imagine what my friend was compelled to get into when he had his heart set elsewhere. Since the tsunami cut deep into the family income, he was a little more accepting of their needs and slowly, but surely, he's growing out of it. It may take years for him to fully integrate into society though.
Also, people need to stop thinking of Tokyo as a "city". It's big and varied enough to be a "county" in the Western sense.
I was only quoting the previous commenter there :)
> Shiogama, for example, is primarily centered around the fishing industry. You can imagine what my friend was compelled to get into when he had his heart set elsewhere. Since the tsunami cut deep into the family income, he was a little more accepting of their needs and slowly, but surely, he's growing out of it. It may take years for him to fully integrate into society though.
That was actually my point. That there's a whole side to Japan that isn't like the western culture perceives.
> Also, people need to stop thinking of Tokyo as a "city". It's big and varied enough to be a "county" in the Western sense.
To be fair, that's true for many large cities - even in the west.
I would like to theorize that this is only one of the things that facilitate such isolation by making it more tolerable. What pushes people IN is the social reflection. Misfits often get shunned for being different. Tack all that on top of the social networks and the compound strength can be overwhelming: This generation is the first generation EVER to get to observe first-hand how their failure compares to their 5th grade friend Jimbo, who's now a doctor. And Suzan has had 2 kids. Meanwhile Jack constantly posts pictures of his new cars on sites X,Y,Z. That doesn't help your self esteem when you see everyone happy and you're lonely. Back in the days, your dad might have messed up for 3 years, but the stigma never stuck because (1) people did not have proof from the network itself and (2) he was able to "snap out of it" because he wasn't constantly reminded of others great lives (and by comparison how miserable he was) - those things would get ushered behind the blinds of hearsay, they'd be on the very periphery of your life. But now all of those haunt you, via Facebook feed and other social medias, where subconsciously we mostly try to advertise our successes. I think it is time for psychiatry to wake up to this. I fear it will take another 50-100 years for this to be understood.
I wish the world would wake up and realize that WE as a society are malfunctioning and that the burden to support each-others falls on all.
If you find it depressing that they're having a "fantastic time", then they aren't your friends in any meaningful sense.
This isn't directed at you. Envy is a stigmatized but natural human emotion. (I rarely feel direct envy, but who doesn't second-guess the path they've taken? It's very easy to look for greener grass and say, "Man, I could be a Director now instead of a 3-failed-startup wash-out", never mind that the other person is Director of a failing, bland company.) Everyone gets down when they see other people having easy, seemingly unearned success-- and oversharers tend to be the hypersocial people who make their successes look even more unearned (it being better, in their view, to be well-liked and socially successful than talented or hard-working).
My point, rather, is that if these people's successes get you down, they aren't friends in any meaningful sense. And social network "friendship" is anything but in many cases, since many people are trying to incite envy to validate their own choices and results.
Most of my real friends I never check on Facebook.
You can be jealous of the good experience without letting it poison your liking for the person.
I'm with you on this, my dad has actually remained "messed up" financially- and career-wise, even though he was a brilliant student and young civil construction engineer back in the day. Of course I love him and think of him as one of the smartest and most intelligent people I have ever talked to, but I cringe at the thought of what would have happened to him on an emotional level if he were to had access to Facebook, for the reasons you describe above (he and mom live in the countryside now, I've brought them an old PC some time ago but thought it best not to install them Internet).
For a possible solution, I think that at some point we will be forced to retreat from this online social mess we've become entangled in, if not by our own will maybe at least our subconscious will force us to. Could be that it's all just a craze.
We have to manage a personal shift beyond that - then the people who won't let the bad weigh on their shoulder or get used to the good making their life easier will be able to exist beyond appearances, and find substance in things. I can see EST coming back in force within the next 50 years.
(My room was video games, and I'm glad I found the doorknob.)
Sometimes I still can't believe I found the "doorknob", but I'm really glad I did.
Also, reading the term NEET here reminded me of Eden of the East, which is a cool Anime if anyone is into that.
It makes up for it by being entertaining though.
I don't know anything about Japanese culture but just based on whatever random bits I've picked up - it doesn't surprise me to see a video or a robot used to avoid an uncomfortable confrontation with a depressed person.
Don't know what she say but I was paying attention :).
It's used as you'd expect: to let somebody know if a sink is overflowing or if a bag tears open and things are falling out.
In the context of the video... I have no fucking clue.
Also, people devoted to exercise are probably not recluses (which is what Hikikomori are), but they may be introverts. Reclusion != introversion.
This is even mentioned in the BBC article.
"an adopted British acronym meaning "not in education, employment or training"
Also Hikikkomori means that you literally don't leave your room at all (which is not the case for a NEET). If the hermit needs something, they'll often bang the floor to summon their mother (typically for food)
Agreed. But that doesn't change the origins of the word - it just highlights the cultural (mis)representation of the term.
> Also Hikikkomori means that you literally don't leave your room at all (which is not the case for a NEET). If the hermit needs something, they'll often bang the floor to summon their mother (typically for food)
To be fair, Hikikkomori and NEET aren't meant to refer to the same people anyway. It just so happens there's overlap in the context. An example in western culture could be "freeloaders" and "unemployed". The former has negative connotations (ie they live of others like leaches) where as the latter just states they don't have a job. While some who are unemployed could be classed as freeloaders, it's also fair to say that some who are unemployed are very keen to find work and support themselves. So there's overlap in the people covered by those two terms but they don't automatically refer to the same group of people.
Great example with the freeloader/unemployed comparison. I'll put that in a mental drawer so I can use it in the future :)
It certainly has a large amount of social condescension in Britain -- "not in employment, education or training" was taken up with glee by the tabloids.
http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ni-Ni
which according to Wikipedia is equivalent to NEET.
However, they're NOT shut-ins (many live in hovels, no place to shut in), so many become thieves and vandals.
Eighteen percent of youth in my country fall in this category (!!!!!)
There is, however, a risk that a Ni-ni may become a hikikomori, or something very similar.
Ni-Ni's here in Uruguay live in "cantegriles" (similar to Brazil's "favelas" or Argentina's "villa miseria")
http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cantegril
Unlike Spain, there are opportunities, there's full employment for youth who want it in construction and other heavy work, but "Ni-Ni's" don't want to have anything to do with that.
There's a huge government "free money" project that's heavily criticized as a "Ni-Ni" enabler.
I'll have to look up that show from La Sexta.
Being a shut-in is nothing new, but most of those are either very old people (who are shut in for partially physical reasons) or people with severe agoraphobia (who can't leave their houses without having panic attacks) or biologically-rooted mental illnesses.
What's happening now in many countries is that people without anything physically wrong with them are becoming shut-ins at very early ages-- 20s instead of 80s.
I feel like corporatism is cultural alcohol (alcohol was more devastating to Native Americans than Europeans, who built up a tolerance over millennia) whose psychological effects are probably somewhat worse in East Asia. Corporatism is everywhere, but when it fails us in the U.S., we don't internalize it. Compared to people in Japan or Korea, we laugh it off, work odd jobs, take a couple night courses, and maybe move to another part of the country. We're used to the industrial-corporate economy melting down every couple of generations (1929, 1973, 2008) and we know that it can be awful, but we don't take it personally. We'd rather pull up stakes and move across the country. In East Asia, there seems to be much more shame to not finding a place in the salaryman system.
Hikikomori is the response, on a large scale, to the decline of a system (world corporatism, which reached peak employment in 2008) in a world where the resulting negative impacts are internalized and personalized to a much larger degree than here.
http://www.anthonyworlando.com/2012/08/02/the-myth-of-the-la...
I think the important dynamic you're hinting at is the failure of the Protestant Ethic. The Protestant Ethic brings material achievements into measure of your value as a human. This was generally warned against in Catholic and Orthodox theology.
Oh, yes, computers can make people look so busy when really they spend all day what I am doing now.
I'm off to the shop to get the tea
And look at Japan's demographic trends. It's like all of the young people just said to hell with it and are not procreating anymore. I don't blame them either. If all I had to look forward to in life is a meaningless existence of an 80 hr work week to support a small family, I would probably not even go there.
In the western world, however, parents will very quickly make their newly reclusive child's life miserable (taking away TV, games, computers, etc.), and even kick adult children to the curb if they refuse to support themselves. And because this is done almost from the start, most kids aren't yet so far gone that they can still reintegrate into society themselves, if given enough incentive.
So a lot of potential cases don't develop severe mental health issues like they would if left alone.
I feel that I've been like this at many times in my life, and it was only when people left me alone and just helped me by actually helping me that I got better. Sometimes I just need people to make sure that I eat, that I don't worry too much, and that I feel that there's a reason not to sleep all day. That people think that the only constructive help is an attacking kind of help, a kind of forceful removal of all supports to make the boat choose to float or sink, I think is a weird cultural thing.
What if the boat has a hole in it? You might want to work on repairing that hole before removing the supports. It's telling that the usual metaphor for describing the ultimatum being given by the people who practice these aggressive interventions is "Sink or Swim." Don't be either too lazy to swim or too stupid to figure out how to swim. A boat with a hole in it, you coddle and fix. You can't incentivize a boat to be fixed, you fix it. Would you torture the flu out of people? Give people enough motivation by torture that they would force their immune system to attack the flu that much harder?
Middle class people used to be sent to sanitariums when they locked themselves in rooms and stopped bathing - to rest out in a peaceful environment, in some fresh mountain/desert/forest air. Working people got sent to sanatoriums with cinder-block walls, and only after they actually fell physically sick. Has our society gotten productive and wealthy enough that we can bring back sanitariums?
You kick someone out of the house it's entirely possible that they'll behave in an analogous manner on the street or in a council flat. Do you have any data?
- kill themself or hurt themself repeatedly (the standard outcome) - do drugs - rampage at every occasion (british chavs ?) - kill others (eventually their bullies when they are bullied) - go to prison for a reason or another
If the parents knew what to do or could do it they would try. Sometimes the parents themself are so broken mentally from the weight of the situation that they are in. I think you are spot on about the parents not engaging enough with their chldren until they reach this points. The guilt about their failure as parents is also a factor in letting the kid go hikikomori instead of forcing him into anther way.
That's also why in Japan you never have "deep" discussions with anyone. All the stuff you talk with people is very, very superficial. Or maybe its just my impression.
hell it's even happening in some cities in china.
Recruiting practice heavily centered to "new graduates" (which means if you don't get hired in the year you are graduating, you are screwed.)
Even if you do land on a job, then unpaid overtime being norm rather than exception.
Across the field, quality of output from any jobs in Japan are insanely high compared to many of countries; and basically workers end up paying the cost of that. (and many of them involving unpaid hours and over the top expectations) And I can certainly understand people exhausted to end up in the state of "Hikikomori."
It is a nice place to visit, but living there can be tough...
When I was a kid, my dad told me something that has always stuck with me: "Pretend like everyone you meet has the following sentence stamped on their forehead: 'I want to feel important'".
Obviously, one doesnt necessarily have to introduce them as buddhist teachings but part of some moral or character building course. Parents dont have enough time to look into all this stuff and by the time psychologists come to the scene, its already too late.
Then people are pushed to the brink and commit suicide or shut themselves off from the world. Glad I'm no longer working there.
I have close friends in Japan that have received superb support from psychiatrists once they were able to get help for their illness. They are all doing better as a result.
I see such conditions as a battle between individualism and collectivism. The collective wants us to adapt to the behaviors and emotions of everyone else, which may conflict with the individual desire to be ones self (And thus, alone: the only place where we can be ourselves). Society wants conformity and familiarity out of fear of the unknown, and as such, we are quick to reject individualism, stick a label on it, and attempt to generalize so we can feel like we're back in control. The mental health industry is the embodiment of this collectivist mentality. It starts with a preconceived solution: that of 'normal', and infers the problems, giving names to conditions which lie outside of that considered normal.
If you consider that mental health conditions are never concretely defined: but instead a list of common symptoms is given a label based on statistical probability: you have the condition if 4 out of 6 of these symptoms apply, for example. The truth is this is all we understand - a very macroscopic view of behavior, emotion and chemical response from our bodies. Nobody really knows the fundamental constructs which define our behavior and feelings yet. The mental health industry doesn't let that stop it though, and is so sure of itself that it can easily apply labels and it can 'fix people', based solely on past results (which aren't that great). Ultimately, what defines whether or not an behavioral, emotional or chemical response is part of a condition is that of perspective: The perspective of those defining the labels based mostly on deviation from 'normal human'.
If we contrast the collective against the individual though, we might come to different conclusions about which needs 'treatment'. The collective favors false values like patriotism, piety and loyalty over actual moral values. It's greedy. The collective says one thing and does another. It's a serial liar. It pillages and murders. By any definition of the word, the collective is psychopathic. Yet individually, we have moral values. It's each of our fears that ultimately manifest into the collective, and the rejection of 'non-conformists' is part of that.
That's why we can have leaders, worshiped like gods, calling for the mass murder of innocent humans, and revered with medals of honor. At the other end of the spectrum, seemingly innocent young men and women who choose solitude, harming nobody but themselves and close relatives, are treated like the bane of society. They must be 'fixed'!
Japan is traditionally a very conformist society, and the pressures of the collective on the individual to succeed are massive. It's not surprising that at some point young people choose not to live for others anymore, but to be themselves - and living in the only place where they can be.
“Before you diagnose yourself with depression or low self-esteem, first make sure that you are not, in fact, just surrounded by assholes.” - W. Gibson
Also, lets not forget how often 'mentally ill' has been used as a pretext for authoritative governments to lock away dissenters for expressing their individuality: alternative views outside those deemed acceptable by the collective.
Starting your own SaaS/app/startup isn't that common for Japanese people, but it is starting to pick up more steam over the past few years. Sounds like his father would be happy to know what he can do with his computer skills if he expands out to becoming an entrepreneur.
A bit of a wasted opportunity there, that I wish someone could have explained the opportunities available to him instead of becoming hikikomori.
We'll be getting together for our college club annual reunion in September and once more trying to tell kids "Hey guys, if the salaryman thing doesn't pan out, we'll take you out to coffee and tell you about some other options." Many middle class Japanese kids have literally never heard that once in their entire lives.
+ Roughly 30% of Japanese society, mostly middle class and male, has this life plan in place from birth: You will study extraordinarily hard and test into a good high school. You will then study extraordinarily hard and test into a good university. You will be hired by a large Japanese megacorp along with 200 people from your university. You will then be a salaryman, owned body and soul by your company, and worked in conditions which resemble indentured servitude for roughly your first 20 to 25 years. In return, you will be promoted in lockstep with the rest of your entering class, you will never be fired, and you will be awarded social status and security with the guarantee of neither of them ever being imperiled by virtually anything.
The skillsets involved in running your own company and the skillsets involved in working for someone else... are very different animals. Especially for those without social skills (or who don't particularly enjoy social interaction) being an employee can be way easier.
I'm not even that introverted; compared to your average programmer/sysadmin, I might even be a little bit extroverted. But I find the level of dealmaking I have to do at my company exhausting, in a way that the technical work I have to do is not.
>That sounds like a business idea. Create retail services in a market filled with custom dealmaking. I'm guessing that might be hard in your case since it sounds like you have to deal with huge datacenters and network providers.
And this is, essentially, what "The cloud" is, and is why "the cloud" is so popular. The pricing is right on the tin, no wasted time negotiating.
I tried to do the same with raw rackspace and bandwidth, but really? re-selling rackspace when you don't own the datacenter is a really shitty business to be in. I mean, I'm not kicking off my current customers, but depending on how the data-center that my buddy will own turns out, I may or may not actually continue to sell co-location services.
Also, everyone expects the negotiation. In datacenter space and small bandwidth deals? (at the low end, they are sold in a bundle) there are middlemen who can funnel customers to you... for the low fee of 10% of the revenue that customer brings /for the life of the customer) Like I said, it's a shitty business; if you are leasing racks and re-selling them, you are /really lucky/ to be getting 10% yourself. (of course, margin (and labor) go up as you lease larger chunks from your provider and sell smaller chunks to your customers... margin on my quarter rack product was rather better; rack cost $600, and if it was full I made $800. Which isn't bad, except that I've gotta fill like 10 racks just to cover getting a reasonable amount of bandwidth into the facility.)
Man, I'm not very coherent tonight. But yeah, the 10% commission for the guys funneling you customers... normally? you make up for that; if someone comes in through one of the funnels, well, guess what, their final price after negotiation is just 10% higher than what you are willing to negotiate down to with someone who comes direct.
(the fucked thing here is that most of those guys that will point customers at you? they have websites that make them look like they are co-location providers.)
Best of luck with your friend's new datacenter.
(as an aside, he.net does seem to be kinda doing it; I mean, their prices are mostly standard. Not really, though. And their power prices are absolutely terrible compared to the high end, as they make you buy a whole rack to run like five servers. I'm pretty pleased with their bandwidth, though, I mean, for the price. Way better than Cogent, for example, who can easily be more expensive.)
I mean, I can get the other guy to handle most of the custom dealmaking (at the cost, of course, of a smaller cut for me.) but changing the industry really was one of my goals... and it's just not going to happen this time around.
I don't know... I'm starting to think that a sincere will to 'change the world' is an inherently bad thing. The whole business side of things is full of [un]ethical compromises and gaining advantage through concealing relevant information (and this, if you are dealing with the most honest folks; if not, it's full of outright lies.)
I have what you would call a successfull full-time job as a programmer and my tendency for staying home was so that I could hack on things I wanted. The pressure however to try and stay ahead of the curve has always been there. Some of it came from parents and society (I'm not American either) but I would say most of it came from me seeing no future ahead of me if I got stuck at the country I was from. I would have gotten by, but I doubt I'd be happy. I'd be on a grim path. I probably felt I was a bit ahead of this curve to not be affected, but now that I'm getting older (35) I'm starting to wonder if I really fenced it off. I'm still unmarried and like to stay home; just in a different country.
What makes it hard for me to connect is not a presence of pressure to do well, but a lack of authenticity in people or events going around in the several places I've lived in the US. I'm talking about a connection. Even as a teenager I would feel some sort of connection with people around me. Now it seems there isn't enough of a will in people to do the same. Whatever dense ingredient was there has now dissipated or distributed over by time or a larger moving population.
When I read of hikikomori, I ended up writing a blog/site to record such connections. Here it is if you find it useful: hikigo com. I like these small reminders that there's enough beauty if you care enough to observe it. I never posted this site anywhere until now, because the anonymity of it is what i like most about it - as a sort of protest to the social Facebook pressure.
I hope it stays that way.
I can see myself retiring with maybe U$ 500.000, though I'd like to have more to afford better healthcare than my country's default (which is MUCH better than the U.S. average, but much worse than what you can buy with money).
What my grandparents did was to rent 3 or 4 properties, and live off that. They did so for about 20 years.
500k still seems low but might do it if you don't have rent to pay. I'd still love to hear the original commenter explain his or her reasoning - there might be some useful tips to learn from.
If 1000 people share ownership of multistorey building also the land the building stands on, also the land tax, also roof, walls, infrastructure, it's bound to be far cheaper than 5 houses with 20 people at most occupying same space.
Taxes are typically levied on the value of each housing unit.
I'm no sure how land tax works in the US but in my country it is calculated by multiplying tax rate for given region by area of the plot and then divided between people who own the plot. Share is usually proportional to the area of the buildings or parts of them they own on this plot.
As I answered in the sibling thread, it very much depends on where you live; $500k is, as a back-of-the-envelope calculation, about a total amount of money an average denizen of my country will earn during lifetime, so it definitely is more than enough to live there.
OR -- dispose of all possessions, live in homeless shelters and off ramens for 50 years -- no travels, no "little luxuries" etc?
OR -- living the high life for 6 months, then suicide?
* reproduce in a healthy manner ( have healthy and well supported children )
* socialize with real people ( we got facial emotions and beautiful speaking capabilities that mammals use for this )
* sport ( the other way around is unhealthy, since your muscles can become useless and you can have big healthy issues if you don't do that )
Of course that's not a complete list.
If you are afraid of doing some of those things ( not that I don't feel that I prefer to stay at home sometimes ), I think that you should consider reading some motivational books about that or change stuff in your life that suits you and make you happy. You don't solve your problems without a fight, that's just the way we live in this e-society.
I'm sorry if my comment sounds harsh.
- Pursue your personal goals with strength and conviction
- Find out what social environment makes you happy (It's ok if it's none) and find a way to build it
- Stay healthy in body and mind in a way that is enjoyable or at least tolerable for you
Eventually you're living in a finely tuned pain minimizing environment, and if you have any energy left, you can get things done.
That, sadly, sounds just about right in my case.
I know other women with very similar stories too. Being the potential fixee for someone's idea that people need fixing, especially when society puts you in a position where you're vulnerable, is not fun.
This sounds almost like I'm having a go at you, which isn't how I want it to come across. I'm reasonably sure that it was well meant advice. But when you start prescribing life choices to people, rather than just talking about things that might happen, it can result in a vastly more aggressive tone than you might have meant there to be.
Combine this with the demographics -- it's very hard for young people to work their way up in an elder-dominated culture -- and you have a recipe for irrational expectations followed by shame and withdrawal.
That's my outsider suspicion.
You have friends who grow up with you. A few generations of teens live in your town at best. Should they not enjoy your company you are SOL. Adults are suspicious of your youth, energetic youngsters scare them. They are held to the same sort of rule about talking to children except to them you are a child. That in mind it should not be hard to imagine how you end up a social pariah in the Americas.
You know there is somebody else out there just like you. You will never meet them because they are inside just like you. The large pool of bored kids that hang out on IRC and talk about whatever it is other kids talk about has dried up. Twitter is not a replacement. Facebook is not a replacement. Those services are localist. They focus on the people you know in your town.
When you have nobody to talk to books become your conversation partners. Stacks of them in a sort of personal library. What F. T. Marinetti called "Public dormitories where you sleep side by side for ever with beings you hate or do not know.". You start to hate yourself for not reading them. You start to hate yourself for reading them. You desperately want to talk about what you are reading yet you know it is boring and nobody wants to listen.
The loneliness starts to break you. It eats away at your sanity. You start daydreaming of smashing the monitor that glows against your face in the night. Throwing the books from piles into the walls their pages slamming into drawers and dressers. Pages litter the floor as you step forward to the CRT television and knock it from the stand. Blood trails behind your step as the glass cuts your feet coagulating into a pool around you. Sitting in the fetal position against the wall of that destroyed room looking up at the face of your shocked mother.
"Son, I think you need to see a doctor." she says in an almost whisper.
"I know" you whisper back.
I found a research report on the topic which basically seems to say that Hikikomori women are probably labeled as "Parasite Singles" rather than Hikikomori, but if the two sets of youth were considered as one, the distribution by gender would be closer to 50:50 rather than the impression that the media serves to give that is is almost always a man : http://towakudai.blogs.com/Hikikomori_as_Gendered_Issue.pdf
I can't say for certain what caused the differences between Japan and Korea despite the countries have very similar cultural and historical backgrounds, including economically, but for whatever reason that's kind of unheard of here.
It feels like all the pieces are in place for a Hikikomori-like phenomenon to hit in Korea, but somehow conditions are just different enough it doesn't happen. It might be that the cultural pressures to get a job and get married (and get out of the house) are just ever so slightly stronger. It also doesn't hurt that it seems more socially acceptable to seek employment outside of salarymanship to Chaebol. Sometimes I think it seems like every person in Korea has tried to start their own business at least once.
Why not? The author was apparently a hikikomori, so presumably he knows what he's talking about.
The withdrawal symptoms shown in this article, and subsequent scorn by Japanese society (rather than sympathy) could be a indicator of this genetic predisposition.
Here is a breakdown of oxytocin receptiveness across some common racial groups. The more G's you have, the more resilient and social you are.
http://browser.1000genomes.org/Homo_sapiens/Variation/Popula...
Also the wikipedia article on oxytocin might be of interest for anyone who has Aspergers or Autistic tendencies.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxytocin
It's interesting to ponder Oxytocin's effect on Asian culture as a whole... confucianism, book smarts, wrote memorization, suffer in silence, etc.
I was just thinking of starting up something like this in Australia, but just realised the bikies (e.g., Hell's Angels, Nomad, Rebels etc) already do something very similar.
A few of my friends have taken to getting 3 part time pink collar jobs to try and make it on their own. They sleep maybe 4 hours each night, a little more on weekends. Some would argue that this problem is related to degrees that are not useful in the job market, but in older generations only 1/3 of the population had attended college... yet those over 60 hold over 3/4 of the USA's wealth.
I'd guess that the widespread "major depression" aspect may be based in an acute perception (may or not be accurate or accurately portrayed) of what life is like for many Nippon men.
Thankless and sweatshop-like work, heavy drinking, the high value of socialization and lack of individuation. Not a surprise, then if "most men lead lives of quiet desperation" as they did when Thoreau recognized the fact.
If this is happening to young teens (sad) maybe they cannot see a "road less travelled". Homogenization of options is not good for everyone's mental health.
This is not to pathologize behaviors people choose which don't interfere with quality of life, but my gut reaction is that many of those described in the article would benefit from treatment with psychotherapy and/or medication. However, I'm told that significant stigma is attached to seeking evaluation and treatment for such issues in Japan (and obviously elsewhere, including the west).
But yeah, ironic.
>> "Hide had become 'withdrawn'"
Priceless!
My observation is that mental illness often has a hurricane-like property wherein the storm is bearable but the social fallout (looting, arson, opportunistic crime) afterward is far more destructive. The disease itself is unpleasant but bearable. People are not.
In a high-stress society like corporate life in the U.S. or Japan, everyone will have deviances from perfect mental function. One would wish for them to have negative autocorrelation (self-correction). Instead, those deviations are often pushed further by external forces. Sometimes it's intentional (ambitious rivals want to thin out competition) but normally it's just an artifact of the stupid stigmas around these diseases. ("He's depressed, not a team player.")
People really don't understand these problems. They think a "panic attack" is that time they hit a heart rate of 120 because they drank too much caffeine before a deadline. No, that's not panic (that's mild anxiety). Panic attacks throw about 50 different symptoms (you have to have a few before you see them all) of which any one of them would feel like an acute, life-threatening crisis to a sane person. Almost everyone who has a true panic attack will end up in the ER, the first time. You have to cycle through all of the bizarre symptoms a few times before you realize that the attacks aren't dangerous. Once you've learned this, they're just annoying ("shit, there goes the next 10 minutes") but the first few attacks are devastating because they feel real.
I also think that the corporate world creates laziness and depression, not in the blase Dilbert sense, but because people who are conditioned to associate work with subordination turn either into disengaged clock-punchers (steal from the system, because it will steal from you) or useless, delegating executives. We think our society values work, but given the increasing association between work and subordination, isn't that indicative of the opposite?
Society effectively programs people to lose motivation and shut down, then stigmatizes people who do so-- whether because of conditioning or an unrelated biological problem-- even if it's only for a week or two. I think the "test" of the dues-paying grunt work is whether a person can keep going in spite of recurring negative signals (subordination, artificially delayed advancement, repetitive busy-work without the leeway to automate it or render it unnecessary) but the truth is that that's a stupid fucking test.
I've never suffered from a panic attack, but my wife does, and regularly. This describes our situation almost exactly. The symptoms are diverse enough to be congruent with everything from acid reflux to a full blown heart attack.
The attacks are milder now primarily because she started timing them and now knows going into one that they'll be over in ten to twenty minutes. Not knowing that leads to the spiral of despair, where you become more and more anxious because you don't know how this panic attack is going to end.
Giving them tags and doing nothing about their problems is just uncivilized, such as in developing countries where most people are uneducated, the people with rare physical diseases who desperately need help get alienated or are made fun of.