Bolivia says Morales' plane diverted, apparently over Snowden
reuters.com
reuters.com
The odd thing about the claim that Snowden was aboard is that FAB1 took off from Vnukovo but Snowden is apparently in Sheremetyevo.
Here's a picture of plane turning round over Austria and then descending and landing in Vienna: http://i.imgur.com/cuUQkWV.jpg
UPDATE: News reports say that FAB1 is leaving VIE shortly and it is now appearing on FlightRadar24's live view.
I'm surprised Poland let him pass if Snowden was really supposed to be on board. US-Polish relations are generally pretty good.
Russia->South America without clashing with the US seems like an interesting problem. If Italy,France,Spain,Portugal is blocked you pretty much have to take a giant detour, go through Africa or try flying out east of Russia (which immediately puts you close to the US). Probably have to go on a very southeast route right away...which basically means he might have been better off going Hong Kong->Ecuador if he could have negotiated that option sooner
Are they that good? I got an impression they were pretty good while Poland was still promised things like joining the visa waiver program. Now I think many people are quite annoyed at the outcome / delaying for years. The whole project of rocket interception sites is also bringing up some interesting questions lately.
Personally, the action by France and Portugal this made this whole web of deceit even more unpalatable. Time for a few leaders to grow a pair.
[1] https://twitter.com/sikorskiradek/status/351959186072027139 [polish]
[2] https://twitter.com/sikorskiradek/status/352062021082165249
[3] http://rt.com/news/poland-drops-charges-investigation-136/
No?
I'll get my coat.
The flight permits will be rescinded, the plane forced to land and subjected to a search, and if Snowden is present I suspect he will be arrested and extradited to the USA on the basis that the asylum is invalid on the grounds that it was not granted in the destination country.
Russia really is his best chance.
Edit: Which makes me wonder, did Bolivia help spread this rumour (on behalf of Ecuador or Venezuela) to test what would happen
"9.27am BST Morales said he refused a request by the Spanish authorities to inspect his plane in Vienna and has not been granted permission to use Spanish airspace, according to Reuters."
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jul/03/edward-snowden-a...
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/07/03/us-usa-security-sn...
No sane state president would risk his own flight safety "to test what would happen."
They president, the delegation and the crew now unnecessarily spent the whole night at the airport for chrissake!
Forced how? I doubt anybody would be willing to shoot a civilian plane down to get Snowden, especially if the plane in question was also carrying a president or other high ranking people. So the pilot could relatively safely ignore any demands to land.
You could surely get Boeing to retrofit one of their planes like that, but I don't think it is something a 3rd party could slap together on short notice.
From Reuters:
http://www.voanews.com/content/snowden-aslym-options-dwindle...
There are embassies for Ecuador, Venezuela, and Iceland in Moscow.
EDIT: Oh and Bolivia too.
If that is true, and this was the American response, then is suggests we (the Americans) are more frazzled than we should be at this point. Whom ever is heading up the recovery effort in DC is making poor decisions at this point.
From Hong Kong/Peking to Moskow, to Austria/France, to Venezuela.
EDIT: it also gives a good indication of the US's reaction times to such over flights.
Of course they might object that these fellows enjoy diplomatic immunity and that it's completely ludicrous. But if this incident has shown us anything I believe it's that US & Friends really don't care much about such minor details.
Same with Snowden - creating a diplomatic incident that now has pretty much every Latin American leader screaming bloody murder and have officials describing it as virtually a kidnapping, and complaining about colonialism, means European countries and others will quickly start seeing that there's a very high potential price to pay for bending to US demands in this, in a case where they likely have little sympathy to the US position in the first place given that pretty much all of them have faced revelations of US spying targeting them. If the US keeps pushing like that, they might just find that someone will snap and decide to tell them to go to hell.
It'll be interesting to see if they manage the balancing act of pushing just hard enough to keep everyone in line without pushing anyone too far.
Arresting him quietly without the media gets them Snowden, but not the deterrent.
Whistle-blowers may be releasing information because of strong ethical objections, not rational thoughts about their own well-being.
I think watching this unfold with obvious lies from governments has actually strengthened the ethics in releasing this information, and may reinforce others with similar information that leaking really is the morally right thing to do.
> "Bolivia should cut all cocaine exports to the US, and push Colombia to do the same, within a week you would see all US politicians panicking and killing each others trying to check first into rehab"
DC out in front by more than a nose, historically too. Probably not just politicians at the trough though.
(airports aren't allowed to scan diplomatic pouches)
The anti EU people in the UK see the EU as socialist, liberal and left wing. The anti EU people in the UK are...... you guessed it... right wing. Fairly extreme right in UK terms, but probably still left wing by US standards. So, for them, the US is an aspiration further right.
IMHO, the EU makes total sense, even if there are many problems with it, and even the US government have urged the UK to get more in to Europe and stop antagonizing it. Partly I think the US likes having the UK as a gateway to Europe. I just wish we in the UK got more out of that deal than we do, like equality and fairness in our deals.
Right now, despite my criticism of the US, I'd prefer to be a 51st state, since we'd Brits would no longer have no rights over US excesses. We could sue "our" government, or what ever Americans do!!! Ah, nonsense of course, we need to get on in Europe better.
Do better than Americans?
Do you mean if the UK was in the EU proper, we Brits doing better than Americans? If so, Im not really referring to the NSA thing, rather our social economic position in general.
As for spying, and what not, no. In many ways we are worse off, with less ability to do much about it. Yes, we in the UK have more CCTV than any other country on the planet. Yes we just "got used to it", apparently. No, we don't have a constitution to protect us, but even then it seems the US gov can still circumvent the constitution as and then it sees fit.
If you mean a choice between being in the EU proper and being a 51st state, then I think it ridiculous to even think about being a 51st state. If nothing else, geography and culture. Despite the shared language, we actually have less in common with Americans than the French, but confuse similarity with a shared language. The comment was intended to be flippant. The idea of American courts fills me with dread. I would genuinely, hand on heart, rather kill myself than face the US idea of justice. Which is one of the reasons I oppose our amusing one sided extradition treaty where the US only has to accuse, no evidence required. But if we want an American for trial, we have to provide evidence, and go through much more due process. We signed up in good faith for an equal deal, we ratified it, the US ignored it. Because we Brits are spineless suckups, we keep to our side of the deal, with out any complaint. This is why you might see me say things like our gov will happily betray its own people to the US.
Despite our problems, I'd rather have our problems, and EU problems, than US ones any day of the week. I would never ever want to be American or governed by Americans. Simply, US culture is not something I either understand or identify with once you get below the surface. No problem with America existing as it stands, and if that is how Americans want to be, then I completely support that, in the same was I support people who want to have, say, an Islamic government. Its their right to choose. Also, always remember our histories. We, US, UK, and that hypothetical Islamic country, all have different histories and reasons for being where we are. We are different. Equally valid, but different. And as the French say, vive la différence.
I really hope that answers your question. If I have missed you point entirely, after all that, then I'm going to cry under my desk!!!!
The EU is a totalitarian, anti-democratic bureaucracy machine that will trample over the nations of Europe. I don't see what's there to like.
I really wish some country would have stepped up and taken him in. While I do not fully support his actions we are far to close to the results of what a one world government would be like. No place to run, no place to hide