Tesla: almost at 100000 votes | Hacker News Reader

Tesla: almost at 100000 votes

80 pointslelf24 comments

From Tesla e-mail:

As you may know, Tesla is under attack from a number of car dealer associations in various states who are challenging Tesla's right to directly serve our customers at Tesla Stores and Service Centers.

Their efforts are protectionist in nature and infringe on the right of the consumer to choose how they purchase and service their vehicle.

An anonymous Tesla enthusiast created a White House petition to allow direct sales of cars to consumers in all states. We want to thank the tens of thousands of fans who have voiced their support and have already signed the petition.

We want this petition to succeed. For that to happen, the petition needs 15,000 more signatures by Friday, July 5, 2013.

Please act now and take a moment to register, sign and forward the petition today!

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/allow-tesla-motors-sell-directly-consumers-all-50-states/bFN7NHQR

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Clickable link https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/allow-tesla-motors...

Funny: I read this as Tesla: almost at 100000 volts.

i think it's hilarious that we tell other countries that we're a free market but clearly we're not if you have to ask law makers to allow you to do business.

Its hilarious in a sad and depressing way. Regulation means "to make regular" not "to only let the rich people do" or whatever most people use it as a euphemism for now.

> i think it's hilarious that we tell other countries that we're a free market but clearly we're not if you have to ask law makers to allow you to do business.

As a citizen of a backwards, non-free socialist European country, yes, it is.

Already signed it, but thanks for putting it back on the radar; it's an important issue that needs to be addressed.

I understand and agree with the reason behind the petition, but ultimately this is a state issue, not a federal one. So i wouldn't see this petition really doing anything meaningful. It's the whole basis of the 10 amendment.

Its a federal issue, actually. There is a law on the books that tries to "regulate" the car industry by forcing them to have "independant local businesses" as "frnachised dealers".

The franchised dealership model is a failure, the dealerships cant do anything on their own initiative else they may lose the frnachise, and all they do is make it harder for the consumer to make an informed choice on a car purchase, and drives the cost up as well.

States COULD try to override the dealership laws (many states have laws that strengthen the Federal one), but thats like trying to herd cats.

I don't believe that's the case, can you cite the federal law in question?

I've read the FTC Commissioner's report on state laws here, and an economic analysis report that both cite state lawmakers as the responsible parties:

1. http://www.ftc.gov/speeches/leary/learystateautodealer.shtm

2. http://www.justice.gov/atr/public/eag/246374.htm

Arizona goes farther, apparently has a law that basically prevents manufacturers from releasing any information which might hurt the negotiating position of dealers. Needless to say, it's being challenged in court. Alliance of Auto Manufacturers v. Hull No. CIV 00-1324-PHX-PGR (D. Ariz. Apr. 30, 2001).

Do you have a reference to the specific law? While dealerships are affected by a large number of federal regulations (fair credit reporting act, certain used car regulations, and others) I am not aware of anything on the books at a federal level regarding structure of dealerships.

Look at the wording of the petition itself: "States should not be allowed to prevent Tesla Motors from selling cars directly to customer"

That doesn't sound like a federal issue to me.

This clearly falls under the interstate commerce clause, much more so than 99.9% of the laws passed under it.

Is this posted somewhere else too? Or HN had 7k votes in one hour? It's an impressive turnout.

It made the front page of Reddit shortly after that. I'd imagine several tech news outlets followed with reports, drawing more attention.

On another board I would usually respond to something like this with "not your personal army"...

And you would be downvoted on Reddit as well. Tesla is a distruption success story that can be repeated by other companies, and the only thing holding them back is out of date government lack-of-regulation.

Regulation merely means to make regular, and this "regulation" makes it so only the biggest and richest car companies be able to sell cars under the guise of "franchised dealerships that are local businesses", that really have very little ability to operate as an independent business.

The laws reguarding dealerships only drive prices up by forcing the existence of a middle man whos only job is to represent the interests of Detroit (ironic, seeing as our cars are made in China and Mexico now, instead of in the US).

tl;dr: Tesla may make cars, but they are the kind of disruption Silicon Valley yerns for.

I feel like the political parties both tend to focus on federal regulations as a source of harm or vehicle for change.

The state and local regulations, those are where all the heavy lifting is done. There's some utter nonsense there, all brought to you by the parties' respective farm teams.

EDIT: Put another way, I'm a left-leaning moderate, but shit like this makes me want to beatify John Galt.

Funny: automobile dealers response?: https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/shutdown-petitions...

Thanks for pointing that out, I've flagged that as inappropriate. Lets hope the WH removes it.

At least this petition clearly asks for something within the remit of presidential power, unlike most other ones (including Tesla's).

Tesla's IS actually in the realm of Presdiential power.

One, he can have his people in Congress sponsor a bill forcing car companies to complete with Tesla instead of trying to lock Tesla out using antiquated laws.

Two, I'm pretty usre he can just use an executive order to make this work. Underhanded, but it can be done.

Why do you think it is inappropriate? It seems to be a reasonable complain. Online petitions are inherently unreliable (just like online pools). Most of the time, they don't reflect real concerns and are subject to arbitrary popularity. e.g. the death star petition [1].

Now, it doesn't mean that it is all bad, but this is serious debate (and surely not an inappropriate one)

[1] https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/secure-resources-a...

Everything stated in the petition is true. The site is basically a way to convince people that the president gives a damn about the American People.

They only reply to the useless petitons and not the real issues like the Snowden Pardon Petiton or Aaron Swartz one.

I agree, though other petitions can be effective. If you care about a cause, place your signature on a petition hosted with an organization that will tirelessly advocate for that cause. Organizations in turn live and die by their ability to gather and show support for the causes they fight.

If there's anything techies should've learned from the SOPA battle, it's that it is possible to make political change when enough people speak out. If you haven't watched aaronsw's talk on stopping SOPA, it's well worth your time. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fgh2dFngFsg

You have no evidence that the petition was put up by auto dealers. This is simply a straw man post and of no value to the discussion.

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