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Comment by zdw | Hacker News Reader

Exactly. If he was paying list price for any of this, there would be a sudden, dramatic increase in price.

Which will happen, when BizSpark runs out.

Keep in mind that BizSpark "runs out" when you pass a million dollars per year in revenue. At which point you can presumably afford a thousand dollars for a SQL Server license.

There's also a cap of 3 years, even if you haven't hit $1m revenue yet: http://www.microsoft.com/bizspark/faqs.aspx#16

Fortunately, they reinvent the program every few years. So in reality you can be in EmpowerISV for 3 years, then BizSpark for 3 years, then [thing that replaces bizspark in 2/2014] for 3 years, etc.

I've personally been in Microsoft's "let's give developers everything for basically free" programs since 2006, and am not worried that I'll suddenly face a crippling bill down the line.

Shafting little startups for a lousy grand or two really is not their business model. Think about it for a second and it'll make sense.

EDIT: To be clear, I'm not advocating gambling your business on Microsoft's goodwill here. For the same reason I don't advocate building a business that a single bill for $1,000 can kill.

The worst case result of MS pulling the rug on all their BizSpark-esque programs is an extra couple thousand dollars a year in the expense column. Here's hoping nobody here works for a shop where that would be a big deal.

What? You're basing your business continuity on a corporation creating a special 'free pass' for you every 3 years explicitly? Because they've done it once before? This seems like a terrible idea. Godspeed man, godspeed.

One could just as easily scoff at someone for basing their business off of "open source community supported" tools.

But, instead, the realistic position is to understand Microsoft's tools and programs will be a decent choice for years to come, just as using FOSS would be.

How is that even remotely comparable? I'm not saying anything about the quality of using MS tools - they're great - but they have a fee attached. They specifically say you will need to pay that fee within X years. Pretending the fee doesn't exist because you don't have to pay it until next year is what I'm scoffing at. Not the tools, the idea that MS will continue to make their expensive tools free when they have put an expiry date on that free license already.

Open source community supported tools are completely different. The price and license are very clear - $0 up front, pay for support if you need it. Don't want to pay for support? No problem. Need a new feature? No problem, pay someone regular rates to add it. You can't lose access to anything because you already have everything. You can't be sued into paying because the GPL specially disallows the creator from suing you.

We might be talking past each other here. No one is saying that it's a good business plan to assume that programs like BizSpark will never run out. That is of course a bad idea. But since no one suggested that, I assumed you were saying that using things like BizSpark at all is a bad idea.... which is not the case.

A valid business plan can be created that involves the pricing structures that Microsoft gives. You can have a plan that involves using a program from MS that gives you their software for free now, with the idea that you will eventually be able to afford to pay for them. Any company worth existing should be able to afford it eventually.

And, hey, look, it even happens that those windows of time can be extended. No one is saying that it would be a good business plan to rely on programs like BizSpark never ending... but it's still worth mentioning that MS has been forgiving if things don't go exactly as planned, and provides a way to delay the fees kicking in.

That sounds like relying on the kindness of strangers to me.

Isn't it what you do when you use a free software stack?

The difference is that in free software, anyone can step up and maintain. Relying on the kindness of Microsoft is a much scarier proposition.

In theory, maybe. But, let's say you want to go maintain X11/GCC/Qt (or even xterm), I doubt "anyone" can. Some people are full time developers on these projects, paid by some company we somehow rely on. You cannot just replace an expert working on such a big piece of software.

Of course, using free software might widen your "trusted base" compared to the situation where you go full MS.

No. Free software doesn't suddenly require payment 3 years down the line to remain legal to use

This is true, but you absolutely cannot build your business on 'Something will show up to keep us going in 3 years'.

As a graduate of the BizSpark program, $100 gets you full license to the software you were using. Software licenses are then transferred to your organization. You don't suddenly incur $1000s of expenses.

IIRC, you get to keep the existing licenses and only need to pay for new ones.

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