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Comment by andrewcooke | Hacker News Reader

is there any way for germany to help him out? that seems, to me, his best chance at the moment. they have the political clout and they're pissed off...

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germany being pissed off at america is like siblings being pissed off at one another. some critical articles in germany and a few harsh words from merkel and it'll blow over. they're not going to make it into a real issue by taking in snowden.

When governments[1] complain about spying, I imagine it is also often a case of crocodile tears, as I assume many of them also spy on foreign non-citizens with regularity.

[1]: Blanket statement about governments in developed countries. Not sure about Germany specifically.

I like to think it's just possible that some modern countries don't pull this stuff and are genuinely shocked at just how much espionage we UK and US folks indulge in.

This may be wishful thinking.

I would hope there are many that don't spy on their own citizens with such regularity, but I find myself being less optimistic about spying on non-citizens...

Exactly. Both our chancellor and our president are rabidly pro-US. Our Minister of Justice is probably the only person in the government that cares about this at all.

I doubt the Germans will side with the Russians in preference to the US. And the Russians are preventing Snowden from leaving because it suits their interests, as would some possible range of deals to turn him over to the US.

I'll add that if I were Snowden, I would probably avoid long-standing US allies like Germany - particularly those full of US military personnel.

Crazy idea: applying for asylum in Russia.

Whatever happened with Iceland? There was some noise about them offering help at one time... has that option gone completely off the table or what? Has there been some news on that, that I missed?

I don't think Iceland was ever really on the table. Other than an MP from a small party making noise, Iceland hasn't officially said anything supportive Snowden, at least that I've seen. The only official statement the Icelandic government has made is that a person must be in the country to apply for asylum, and until he's in the country there is nothing for them to comment on.

The old guard is back at the helm in iceland. The coalition that governed before their crash. The recent pledge to become a media and anti-corruption heaven is mostly shunned by them.

Did I miss anything? Why is Germany supposed to be pissed off? I think Obama only visited last week?

We wiretap the hell out of their citizens.

Yes, this little issue is why Germany will risk the US as an export market. Just to piss off Obama, because das Merkel is sad the constitutional court prevented her party from implementing very similar measures first.

Please be a little realistic. The ruling parties, with the exception of the Minister of Justice, have been so quiet, it's making the news. Mrs. Schnarrenberger (FDP) is not representative of her party, let alone the government.

Ah OK - somehow I didn't register that as "news" :-)

Edit: Why the downvotes? As a kid, 30 years ago, I would frequently pass by the Echelon antennas. I was told they were for spying on communication. So I thought it was a given for decades that the US (and others) are spying on German businesses. The technology might have changed, but not the facts.

Wikipedia on Echelon http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ECHELON

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