WikiLeaks' Assange urges support for Snowden | Hacker News Reader

WikiLeaks' Assange urges support for Snowden

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Here it would be worth mentioning Ecuador's track record on press freedom, which is among the worst in the world:

http://www.cpj.org/americas/ecuador/

The issue is independence from the US. I'm sure Assange is painfully aware of Ecuador's deficiencies.

Isn't "this bad thing is OK as long as the good guys are doing it" exactly what Snowden was complaining about?

No. Nobody's saying it's OK. We're just talking about what countries are possible refuges from the US.

If he was willing to stay in a country with poor support for human rights then he could have just stayed in the U.S. and kept his head down.

If human rights is really what he's about then I'm not sure how raising Chinese prestige as a refugee while lowering U.S. prestige is really helpful to the overall cause.

He also could have leaked the info anonymously.

He said exactly why he came forward in the first interview -- that since he was breaking the law, he owed Americans an explanation. The guy is top notch.

So maybe he could have left a README.nfo in with the leaked documents? He wouldn't have needed to unveil himself that way and still been able to explain himself.

That's true. But this way is much more powerful. He's acting according to his principles, and not sneaking around. He's like the complete opposite of his enemies.

and not sneaking around

He's vanished away to Hong Kong...probably? Nobody knows where he is.

You're right, of course. But I mean he's shown himself. He wants to blow the whistle, and everything he's doing is consistent with that. He's doing everything as much on the up-and-up as possible without putting himself directly into the hands of the criminals he's exposing.

He just needed a place where he could do this crucial work before being apprehended. The world seems to see Hong Kong as China, which is wrong and unfortunate -- HK is definitely its own deal.

Is he? For no particular reason, I would be more confident that Sowden is, but I'm not 100% certain about Assange.

Its worth noting that most of the press issues in Ecuador centre on national politics. The big news organisations are highly partisan (fox-news like), pro-right wing and anti-Correa. Correa won a big law suit against one last year for libel (mentioned in your link). Is this state-enforced intimidation of journalists? I don't think there is an easy answer...

(Not trying to put my own opinion on this, just state some complexities of the issue)

In other words, there's press freedom in Ecuador, as long as the press doesn't threaten the government of Ecuador.

In that case, which was decried by Ecudorean media as a crackdown on press freedom, the journalist wrote Correa "...ordered fire at will and without warning against a hospital full of civilians and innocent people..." and "committed crimes against humanity". Correa later pardoned the defendants. This was in relation to an attempted coup where the police force trapped Correa in a hospital.

Also important to note owners of the media in Ecuador are opposed to Correa since he does not support their interests.

As Chomsky said about this incident: Can you imagine if a coup against the President, supported by the press and executed by the police occurred in the United States? They would be put against a wall and shot.

So while there may be problems with press freedom in Ecuador they should be put in the proper context and investigated more carefully than a "freedom of the press index" can convey.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rafael_Correa#Lawsuit_against_t...

Correa pardoned the defendants who were later brought back up on civil charges in the same matter.

Iceland's Pirate Party lawmaker advised him to go to Cuba.

"If I was his legal counsel I would urge him to look at many countries, not just Iceland," [Jónsdottír] added. “Maybe New Zealand, Ecuador, Cuba—many countries."

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2013/06/icelandic-lawmake...

I know little about the legal issues, but that strikes me as ill-advised. It's clear that US intelligence agencies aren't concerned by laws, so the power these organizations are able to project in a country is at least as important as its legal framework for extraditions. Snowden may be safe legally in Cuba, but would he be safe extralegally and safe physically? It seems that Hong Kong was chosen specifically as a place that would present more than just legal obstacles for the US.

I'm amazed there's any expectation of ideological commonality with Cuba, a repressive state with near-totalitarian control over information, where connecting to the internet is functionally illegal:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_in_Cuba

How did that advice work for McAfee, or the 2 instructors that have been caught in the past year on the FBI Top 10 Most Wanted list?

This works well for alimony non-payers and for puny tax cheats. For global-scale celebrity like Snowden - anyone's guess. Too much at stake.

These two are nowhere near the same. Assange leaked information that actually put people's lives in danger. He directly named operatives undercover in places with governments that wouldn't think twice about chopping their heads off. This gives Snowden a bad name, and in my opinion devalues what he has done.

That wasn't Assange (http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0811/62299.html).

First, those names were put out by a foolish mistake by a Guardian journalist by releasing the encryption key. Second, as far as I know, no one can point to a single person who was harmed or was even put in danger. And there were risk/damage assessments performed by the government so you would expect the fact that someone, without being specific, had been put in danger to be made public.

So where is the best refuge for whistleblowers? Is going underground (figuratively!) the best option?

Sealand? Vatican City?

Yeah, no one ever raids Sealand...

I find it kinda cute that the advice is that in order to get further away from the US, one should move closer.

assuredly, I think it wouldn't be a dumb move for him to wind up in say, northwest idaho, or somewhere seriously remote.

Like where Ruby Ridge happened?

No can do. The LatAM will change leadership and he'd be screwed sooner or later. Sadly, USA probably pushed him to commit treason and spill the guts on what USA does to China. He's very valuable to the Chinese; USA should have granted him a pardon, if he stopped talking and secured the materials. Bad precedent but...

how is what he spilled treason? Article III:

"Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court."

Feinstein accused him of "treason"

http://thehill.com/blogs/defcon-hill/policy-and-strategy/304...

In which case, we're assuming that we're at war with either the entire world or ourselves. Either one puts us in a bad spot.

They don't need to actually convict him, only accuse him so he can be locked up indefinitely.

point taken

We are not at war with China, and should not be, and hopefully never will be. As an American who has lived in China for two years, the Chinese people are our friends/family. It's only government psychopaths who seem to want each country to be its own secretive cult whose members hate other cults. Snowden's just providing proof that, despite what it always says, it's actually the US that is belligerent and bellicose, attacking everyone, even supposed allies.

"It's only government psychopaths who seem to want each country to be its own secretive cult whose members hate other cults."

Of course. That's the best rationale for increasing the size of government.

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