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Comment by ghjm | Hacker News Reader

I agree that the Mac packaging system is wonderful for installing programs, but I think this is because it does not even attempt to solve the problem of uninstalling programs.

Arguably, this is a good trade-off because users rarely uninstall software. But it means that if you ever become uncertain about the configuration state of a Mac, you're probably going to have to reinstall from scratch.

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What?! This is total nonsense.

Application uninstalls are as trivial as dragging the application to the trash bin. No, this will not eliminate the application's data from ~/Library, etc, but 98% of the time you don't want that anyway. If you know what you're doing, it's usually a quick `rm -rf ~/Library/...` and you're done. Some poorly behaved apps stick stuff in other places or otherwise muck with your system, but now with the app store, that's no longer an issue.

And, if you're absolutely anal about deleting every single trace of an app, there are tools that automate the process. For example: http://www.appzapper.com/ -- But really, it's probably a waste of your time unless you had a badly behaved app go rouge. In my many years of Mac ownership, I've installed and uninstalled hundreds of apps and the only time I ever had to bang my head against the wall was when I used to use MacPorts and a Postgres install went haywire because of the same sort of packaging nonsense that the article is talking about.

> Application uninstalls are as trivial as dragging the application to the trash bin. No, this will not eliminate the application's data from ~/Library, etc, but 98% of the time you don't want that anyway.

When uninstalling an application, you usually do want to remove all of the application's components. How often do you say, "You know, I'd like to uninstall 25% of this application, even though the remaining 75% will just be dead weight without it"?

The two kinds of things there are configuration/settings, and the user data. When you uninstall Adium (for whatever reason), uninstalling the chat logs from the last five years is probably not part of your expected outcome. Uninstalling an application shouldn't reach into your homedir and delete things, either on Linux or OS X.

I do expect when I delete, say, Steam, it won't leave 20 GB of games I can't play sitting around in a totally invisible place. Similarly, when I delete some video or sound editing software, I don't expect it to leave several gigabytes of samples and filters lying around. Both of these are real situations I've encountered when people came to me asking why their hard disk was so ridiculously full.

I can understand not deleting things out of ~/Documents, but a lot of stuff that goes in the Library folders is not what users think of as data that should outlive the application.

I can see arguments both ways on things that are technically recoverable but might require lots of download time (like 20GB of games). However, your settings in those games (if not held on Steam's servers; I don't know where they are) should never be deleted by the application. If you're saying that non-recoverable settings and such should go in ~/Documents, I disagree with that, too: things in the Library folders aren't what the users think of as data, but they are stuff that the users will be upset are missing if they uninstall and reinstall.

Steam itself is sort of a package manager, so that's an interesting edge case...

However, I think that there are basically three categories of application data

1) Documents -- These should never be deleted and are not invisible 2) Settings & other small data not worth deleting, probably nice to keep around in case you ever re-install. Most stuff. 3) Large semi-temporary files, like samples and other downloaded add ons that are optional parts of the application

I think OSX handles 1 & 2 well, but you're right, it needs a way to handle #3 too. However, I think that #2 is a much better default than #3.

That 'go rouge' is a neat typo, it sounds much naughtier than going rogue.

Riak could be contained in one OS X application bundle. All its dependencies in one directory. To uninstall, just trash it. It's up to the distributor.

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