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Comment by Yuioup | Hacker News Reader

While I agree with the sentiment, will this actually change anything? I have yet to see anybody anywhere making any difference ...

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It's disappointing that the reaction to PRISM outside the US has not been one of fury. Non-US citizens have been hit worse by this but nobody in the mainstream European political landscape is making any noise about it. Is it because they don't have the temerity to risk relations with the US by publicly criticising them? I suspect it has more to do with not wanting to draw scrutiny to their own programs for mass surveillance.

I'm particularly surprised about Germany's reaction. Obama was scheduled to speak this week in Berlin, in the same spot where Kennedy gave once a famous speech (the Branderburg Gate). Now, I won't pretend that I'd expect the German government to cancel his speech, but I'd hope at least some hard questions would be asked.

I mean, Germans know exactly what happens when surveillance gets out of control - the Wikipedia page about the Stasi [1] is pretty good, including lines such as "counting part-time informers, the Stasi had one informer per 6.5 people" and "As the GDR began to fall, the Stasi did as well. They began to destroy the extensive files that they had kept, both by hand and with the use of shredders. When these activities became known, a protest erupted in front of the Stasi headquarters". Can anyone imagine US citizens storming the NSA, or the FBI? Even today those files are being reassembled, because people wants to know what happened.

And yet, what happened during the conference [2]? Angela Merkel essentially stepping in defense of Obama. She could have said she didn't agree. She could have remained quiet. And yet she speaks (mildly, though) in his favor, even while by her own admission "the questions have not yet been satisfactorily addressed". That was disappointing.

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stasi

[2] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qG0D3A8FkPo

Merkel isn't exactly a proponent of digital privacy[1][2]. It's unbelievable that the government of a country where the Stasi were operating in living memory aren't incensed by this. If anyone's interested in a film showing what life was like under the regime, The Lives of Others is a haunting exploration of that period, particularly relevant to what's happening right now.

[1]http://infowars.net/articles/september2007/050907Merkel.htm

[2]http://www.dw.de/german-chancellor-merkel-rebuffed-on-terror...

Indeed it is odd, especially as Merkel herself lived through this in East Germany http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angela_Merkel#Early_life

It s not odd if you are on the other side of the surveilled people and personally know the surveilors.

After all, it's needed to stop terrorists.

Depends on how you define "difference". In a way, of course it makes a difference. That domain wasn't registered recently, now there is a webpage there. It has words on them, people can read it. That it doesn't magically make the NSA disappear doesn't mean it doesn't make a difference.

Any and all change begins with thought, speech and action in individuals, then in groups. Some things took a LONG time, and consisted of many small things. Even "reading and talking about an article about something that matters instead of watching cats on youtube or discussing font sizes" can help, IMHO. Unless you think it distracts you from doing something that would have even more impact, I don't see the problem? I get impatience, but not futility.

If the respective pirate parties put in enough of an effort, informing the public, organizing protests, petitioning local and EU authorities and so forth they might get some of this through. I still think that even then it would be unlikely…

What a positive enlightened call to action! Go you!

Of course I'm hoping that they succeed. But I see no reason to kid myself into believing that there is a high probability that this will work.

Since I'm living in Münster, where a lot of the German Pirates are and know quite a few of them, I'll be the first one to join any protest or demonstration they organize locally.

Maybe you could take the lead on such a protest?

Since I rate the chances of it making an actual difference as pretty low - No. Also, I don't have a clue how to organize SHIT.

And as far as making the world a better place goes, I'm currently looking into the possibility of automated vertical farming with hydro- or aquaponics. Even if I just have a teensy bit of success with that it would probably have a larger impact than organizing protests, an activity about which I know NOTHING.

They are already effecting change; seeing this on the front page has made me have much less respect for the Hacker News community. How can so many people be so stupid, and on HN of all places?

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