Problem after update to PS3 firmware | Hacker News Reader

Problem after update to PS3 firmware

community.us.playstation.com

75 pointskyle_t50 comments

Not bricked since it still boots stuff and can be fixed. Oh well, everyone's taken a liking to say they are bricked - it sounds so much more dramatic.

Yeah, I'll allow the usage of "bricked" if recovery requires opening up the device and connecting via JTAG. That's effectively dead and unrecoverable by any normal consumer.

But c'mon, a device that you can fix by sticking in a USB drive with a patch is not bricked.

Also the number of the affected PS3s is not large both according to Sony and neogaf's lack of a rioting. But, I think such exaggerations in the news are good to catch attention of the people who might be affected by this.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-06-19-playstation-3-u...

This story says the offending patch has been pulled offline.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/insertcoin/2013/06/19/playstatio...

affected systems estimate:

Aftermarket HDDs, 500GB-1TB ~90%

Stock 500GB models ~8%

Stock 120GB models ~2%

Stock 1st-gen fat models ~ 0%

I initially read that as 90% of the aftermarket HDD systems were affected rather than 90% of the affected systems were those with aftermarket HDDs.

These numbers come from looking at the problem reports on a forum.

Heh, it's worth noting that the Forbes source for those "numbers" is a Redditor who is ballpark estimating based on user reports in a forum.

Didn't realize we were in a time when Forbes sources were nearly unsourced Reddit comments.

http://www.reddit.com/r/Games/comments/1gmrmx/do_not_update_...

At the top, over the article: "Paul Tassi, Contributor". I think the official articles are written by "..., Forbes staff". There's not much distinction these days between the core and the affiliated people. (not that this is an excuse)

What happens if an official update bricks your device and the warranty expired?

Happened to me and I was SOL. They wanted me to send it in and pay about 200CAD for repairs. I yelled till I was blue in the face, but no dice.

IANAL but I suspect the law would have been on your side in that scenario, if you'd been able to use it. Seems pretty clear-cut that they broke your device. The guarantee ought not to be relevant.

This depends on the jurisdiction. Consumer protection laws vary per-state in the US. Not sure what they're like in Canada, but you can bet Sony did everything they could to limit their liability.

Wait for the company to realize what's going on. Wait for said company to release a patch to fix a problem that was obviously their fault to begin with. You face can return to it's normal color now. Jumping to conclusions like "SOL" is a bit ridiculous

edit: I'll gladly take a downvote for this, you're talking about screaming at customer support and IM getting downvoted. Constructive group we have here.

This happened during another wave of bricked PS3's about a year ago. One year later - same shit is happening to PS3 owners, no real addressing of the problem happened.

My device has been stuck in a perpetual (failing) update loop like many others. No patch was ever released. There's no known way without specialized hardware (PS3Key) or out-of-warranty RMA. I don't want to invest in either solution.

My device does something similar. When a new update comes out, 95% of the time the update will fail. When that happens, it continues to fail no matter how often I retry.

Through much trial and error, I found a way to make the update work every time. This may look stupid, but I swear it works:

  1. Try the update. It fails.
  2. Turn off the console.
  3. Take the hard drive out.
  4. Turn on the console. It will fail to boot and shutdown.
  5. Put the hard drive back in.
  6. Turn on the console. The update will start again and succeed.

I have no idea why this works, it makes no sense to me. But it's been working this way without fail for a few years.

Thanks man. I tried this out to no avail. When I realized that I was faced with a hefty RMA bill, I tried both removing the battery and letting its settings RAM clear overnight as well as booting without a hard drive. Both had no effect unfortunately.

In my opinion, it's a poorly designed update mechanism that makes it prone to failure. There should be some redundancy built into the process so that the machine can always force itself back to a "known-good" state and at least access the recovery menu.

Officially you are out of luck if it is completely bricked though for PR purposes, especially this close to a new product launch, they may far more generous than that.

Officially out of luck? I've read in multiple places they are looking into it and will release a patch

The question was what happens if your device is bricked. Bricked means you are unable to even apply a patch and need to take the device in for servicing or replacement.

If you are able to apply an update yourself, your device is not bricked.

This bug hasn't caused any devices to get bricked either. The title is wrong. The recovery menu is accessible, so is definitely patchable.

Correct with respect to the issue discussed in the article.

Though I was answering the related hypothetical question "What happens if an official update bricks your device and the warranty expired?".

Downgrading is not for the faint of heart, and requires special hardware ("factory jig") to overwrite some firmware. http://www.ps3news.com/ps3-hacks-jailbreak/ps3-firmware-3-6x...

They are not bricked, the update is just buggy. They will release a fix and you will have to put it on a USB and upgrade from that. Bricked means it is completely unusable. It is a sensationalized title.

Sensational, maybe, but it's not good for PS3 owners, whether bricked is the right word or not.

I agree, but I doubt they will have to wait weeks for a fix. Sony will have a patch within a day or two.

Yeah, neither is good for PS3 owners, that's not in question here, but there is a big difference between being bricked and not.

From wikipedia: "In one common sense of the term, "bricking" suggests that the damage, often a misconfiguration of essential on-board software, is so serious as to have rendered the device _permanently_ unusable."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brick_(electronics)

By that definition, and you being picky, we can safely assume than nothing can brick any device.

What? Your CPU burnt during the last upgrade? Not bricked! You just need to go through the simple procedure of soldering a new CPU!

There is, usually, no such thing as _permanently_ unusable. 99% of the time a bricked device can be recovered by reflashing a working FW through JTAG or equivalent. This needs a piece of equipment to do so, but so does online or USB flashing...

You agreed to that in a EULA.

Yeah, and your first born.

These may not actually be bricked but I had an old ps3 that actually was bricked after the update following the psn hack and consequent month-long outage. This ps3 had linux installed on it at some point (from back when ydl had a ps3 tailored distro) but that was overwritten by a sony update that I grudgingly agreed to since I didn't want to give up my access to psn. When psn came back up after the long outage I got on immediately and the update was downloaded, but as soon as it finished and before any indication of a restart I heard a 'click' and it was gone, forever. Sony told me they would 'pass on' my info about having linux legally installed previously but admitted nothing and it remains useless to this day. Luckily, I received a new one as a gift... but now I am afraid to update it ;) I'll wait a couple days I think to be sure.

It will be interesting to see how this type of situation would be handled in the XBox One, which can't play games unless you're checking in online. It's not like you'd avoid connecting in order to see if people have problems with a patch.

Probably much like Windows updates, which come out regularly without issue. Microsoft has a pretty good track record and decades of operational experience around this kind of thing.

Back in 2011 there was an update to the 360 that bricked consoles. Microsoft sent out replacements to people affected. So it's not unthinkable.

I imagine more people would be affected if the machine is always on, since the updates could be applied even if you're not using the machine and would likely be required in order to connect.

Judging by Windows Phone updates, Microsoft probably will not update all consoles simultaneously.

To add an anecdote to this, I had a bricked Xbox 360 due to the famous "red ring of death" within the first two years of its life. Shipped the broken system to Microsoft and received a brand new one in two weeks from Microsoft that has worked ever since. Failing hardware sucks, but the way Microsoft handled it was great.

If you've paid for PS+ your PS3 will switch itself on in the middle of the night (optionally; you can disable it) to sync, download and install queued titles and most importantly apply patches.

I wonder how many people woke up to broken consoles?

But really, you can unplug the new Xbox, it's just that if the situation goes on for more than 24hrs you won't be able to play anything (Sony 'resolved' the situation within hours by removing the problem patch).

" But really, you can unplug the new Xbox, it's just that if the situation goes on for more than 24hrs you won't be able to play anything (Sony 'resolved' the situation within hours by removing the problem patch). " not sure what you mean by 'resolved' when scores of people are complaining Sony just bricked their consoles.

If you want to try to prevent your Xbox One from receiving the broken update by unplugging it from the network, then you will still be able to play your games so long as Microsoft pull the update within 24 hours like Sony have done. As soon as they do that, it's safe to connect again.

PS+ does not update the OS.

"Automatic Update gives you the choice to receive the latest PS3™ system software and all your latest game updates without lifting a finger. It can enable automated Trophy sync and game saves with PlayStation®Network or deliver selected game and video content directly to your console."

http://us.playstation.com/psn/playstation-plus/

Right, but that's not a PS+ thing. It's right there in the menu for all users to turn off or on.

An option for a manual update is there for all users. Automatic updates can only be scheduled for PS+ members.

http://uk.playstation.com/psn/support/ps3/detail/linked28507...

Never updated the OS for me. Each OS update comes with a EULA, if the OS itself agreed to that it probably had been void.

I stand corrected. Mine downloaded the update but required permission to install it.

Seeing all the drama about XBox One vs PS4, I can't help but laugh. The PS4 may seem a better solution (lower cost, more freedom) but then I remember, this is Sony. Gaming network hacked many times, company that attacks hobbyists that hack on the hardware they own, and then situations like this.

Plus, Sony will stand up to a crowd and lie their face off. I wouldn't be surprised if the DRM differences between PS4 and XBox One aren't actually different.

OP not about PS4. Don't care.

(seriously, are you trying to start another PS4 / XB rage thread? Stop trolling)

No, I'm not. In the same way that a post related to the iPhone somehow magically turns into a discussion about Samsung and "rounded corners", when the original article had nothing to do with those issues. My point is situations like this are further indications of Sony's incompetence, yet there's plenty on HN who will be standing in line to give them money when the PS4 come out, as if it's a different company without all the fails.

I would imagine they can roll out the rootkit PR campaign almost unchanged. In order to protect our IP, sometimes extreme measures have to be taken ... Along with a healthy dose of the ole "In order to save the village we had to destroy the village"

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