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Comment by der3k | Hacker News Reader

"We were gathering bulk data from telecoms even before the Patriot Act" Thought this was important to note.

Perhaps even more important to note "before 9/11."

So if mass surveillance didn't prevent 9/11, is the rationale to expand it to TOTAL surveillance, if necessary?

  | Perhaps even more important to note
  | "before 9/11."

To me, at least, that's basically how I read "before the PATRIOT Act." I looked it up and the PATRIOT Act was signed into law on 2001-10-26; for some reason I thought that it was quickly pushed through a day or two after 9/11.

I read it similarly, but not everyone may recall the ins and outs of the Patriot Act's passage—it was nearly a dozen years ago now. Many of the folks on HN were in grade school.

I was trying to draw attention to the line that government keeps giving us about how "they are trying to prevent another 9/11" with the secret laws and secrets courts that enable warrantless wiretaps and constant surveillance.

FWell, there was Total Information Awareness, which was "shut down" after public objection, where "shut down" meant moving the functions to various other places.

This is documented in several books including "The shadow factory", it's been going on for decades. The Telco's basically get absolved of any legal responsibility directly from the oval office. How exactly that works in terms of law, I have no idea, but I would assume it's locked inside a safe.

ps. Do not use satellite phones unless you want everything listened too:)

I would be honestly surprised if it started as late as 1980.

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