Watch 2013 Barack Obama Debate 2006 Joe Biden Over NSA Surveillance [video]
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eff.org
Searching "Team B" for it's history, of "Leo Strauss" for it's ideology is a good starting point for people interested in this topic.
The actions of the G.W.B. administration are actually fairly understandable when you consider that most of his cabinet was from Team B.
As for Obama, all indications of his pre-presidential history is that he is ideologically traditional liberal, applying the term to him is problematic, even though his actions in office could indeed be described as neoconservative.
This makes him far more difficult to assess.
we'd label him a neoconservative corporatist in the same vein as Cheney
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoconservative
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crony_capitalism (what I mean by corporatist)
Think about those two in the context of the president's actions and come back to your statement.
Let's tally his accomplishments, shall we? He's bailed out private corporations at the expense of the middle class (ugh, don't like this phrase) through both taxes, and worse, inflation. He's not only continued the middle eastern wars, he's vastly expanded them (and I won't even mention drones). He's allowed the wholesale spying on Americans. Increased the size of the incompetent DHS. Basically said that murdering Americans without due process is alright. He hasn't legalized gay marriage. He hasn't decriminalized marijuana. What political ideology does that sound like? The president has only been 'liberal' on one point: healthcare. Even there, he basically handed (well, forced) over all our healthcare to private corporations. And our healthcare is still expense, even more so!
Look, President Obama is neither liberal or conservative, he's a political opportunist who's actions happen to align with the neoconservatives minus the religious stuff (thankfully). I doubt it's intentional, but if it walks like a duck...
Obama pulled us out of Iraq and Afghanistan more or less on schedule. And he kept us from getting sucked into Libya and Syria, except for extremely minor aid like the 2011 no-fly zone, and arming the rebels in Syria.
Obama has used executive orders to promote policies like reducing allowed federal standards for carcinogens, promoting open data standards, and much else. http://blog.okfn.org/2013/05/10/government-data-open-and-mac...
From TFA: "the CIA sees Obama as a valuable asset in putting a pretty face on our wars in the eyes of foreign populations."
In 2007, he believed in what he said - that security is not an excuse to violate the civil liberties of the people. There was so much conviction in his words. That conviction just isn't there anymore.
I'd follow 2007 Obama anywhere, but 2013 Obama is severely lacking.
From what's been leaked I find the idea that all digital communication is monitored on everyone and everything disturbing. As Snowden mentioned in his interview this is a powerful thing for a government to have and can become dangerous. It's something the public should be involved in deciding where and if that line is drawn.
It's a catch-22. The information necessary to fully appreciate what's going on is classified and the only way to understand the argument completely is to get a high level clearance which then prevents you from making any arguments about it.
Daniel Ellsberg wrote something really interesting about the effects this can have on the cleared vs. uncleared: http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2010/02/daniel-ellsber...
From what's available I can't imagine a situation where the cost of this type of massive internet surveillance outweighs whatever benefit. While I can appreciate the necessity of secrets - I wish we could know the truth.
In the case of such a broad surveillance system, I'm having trouble coming up with good secret reasons. Perhaps I'm being unimaginative. If, for example, this system was preventing hundreds of terrorists, what damage would be done by stating that it has unequivocally stopped major threats?
What's the damage in revealing what's going on and why?
Is the plan "if we're quiet enough, bad guys won't bother using encryption or cover their tracks?
I'm curious to know, what information, in theory, would change someone's opinion, and must remain secret in order to keep things safe. Aside from breaks on popular ciphers or mass collusion with major hardware/software vendors.
Edit: I'd trust a president stating for sure that this is entirely necessary, and stating there is secret information that'd even change the EFF's opinion. Obama's speech doesn't give that perception at all. It feels like he's stumbling around to justify something he knows is bad, using nebulous threats.
I think Obama is somewhat conflicted over the balance and is unable to reveal the interesting parts of that question.
Assuming an environment where all digital information is monitored and it actually is used in a reasonable way (active, investigations, internal warrants from courts, etc.) I could see there being an argument that keeping the extent of it secret prevents people from knowing what's being monitored and avoiding those methods of communications. I don't agree with this argument primarily because things change in leadership and governments and having a system like this (especially with it being secret) can lead to abuse.
This was Snowden's point about changes in policy and 'turn key tyranny'.
Clearly access to this information changed Obama's opinions pretty severely - there must be a lot we don't know.
What if it had prevented a biological weapon that could have killed millions of people in NYC? Revealing this publicly could cause mass panic.
Obviously I have no evidence of something like this, but it's a thought experiment to consider. Would that make the surveillance worth it in your mind?
The thing is, I don't think anyone is claiming major successes. They're just saying that it's OK. Watching Obama's talk just gives you the feeling it's political nonsense, with a bit of CYA lines too.
The catch-22 you've described is why it's so important for as little to be classified as possible. When secrets are kept from the people who those secrets are intended to protect, it is impossible for the people to know and debate their value. It creates two classes of people: ordinary people, and their rulers who possess this special information.
This is why even a vague societal acceptance of the idea that safety requires sacrificing certain rights is exceedingly dangerous. It creates a slippery slope where the people make progressively greater sacrifices to the "cleared" class so that, according to that same class, they can protect the people. But the people never know if they were safer. All they know is that they gave up rights for a promise that may or may not have been kept.
I'd like to think I would, but it's hard to define ideas when you're missing huge pieces of information.
Yet, we're at a point that the boogey-man of 'terrorism' has made us throw that away for the concept of safety.
Yes, I'm absolutely certain that if you're in the position to protect people and enforce the laws that its rather nice to be able to do anything to make that happen- but we've just got to accept some level of risk (and hazard) in exchange for them not violating everything just to create that risk-free perception.
That's one way to put it but it seems like a jarringly bad way. Secrecy is such powerful force that we shouldn't bluntly say it has a corrupting, corrosive and poisonous effect on our society? I disagree. It is so powerful we should say that.
Sorry if that's too simple or something
In 2008, Candidate Obama first promised that he would not vote for retroactive immunity for telecom companies that had opened their networks to the NSA. And then, a matter of weeks later, he did so anyways [1,2].
This vote was inextricably linked to the issues we're discussing today. In 2008, companies were on the verge actual accountability: they would have had to pay millions and billions of dollars in fines to their customers (or at least their customers' lawyers). If that had happened, it's easy to imagine those companies' modern incarnations being more adversarial with regards to new surveillance laws, court orders, and appropriate process.
It was clear then that Candidate Obama would easily cave on core issues for political expedience, just as it is now. I'm not saying that there were better alternative candidates. I'm just saying that if you'd really have followed "2007 Obama anywhere." you either weren't paying attention or willfully deceived yourself.
[1] http://news.cnet.com/8301-10784_3-9982898-7.html [2] http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-9986716-38.html
The thing about Obama 2007 was that he was, in fact, giving Obama 2013 all tools he needed.
Candidate Obama promised law enforcement "all the tools they need" as much as he promised an end to all the wiretapping. President Obama is, in fact, right that there are choices between the powers of the police and the rights of the citizens. If candidate Obama had ponied up and said sometimes you do have let one guilty man escape, let one cop feel like their "hands are tied" to protect the liberties of Americans, then he'd have an argument. If candidate Obama had said "yes, there are tradeoffs but the seesaw had clearly moved in a dysfunctional and unbalanced direction that we have to correct", then you could honestly say he's shifted now. The candidate Obama I saw, was promising anything and everything and thus it's not the least bit surprising he is now just doing what's convenient. Course, the candidate Obama had a great ability to say things in a way that made people think he's saying what you want.
Just consider the beauty of candidate Obama's, uh, "languaging", President Obama still opposes illegal wiretaps, right? What President Obama is defending here is legal wiretaps, of course.
He believed that security was not just cause for violating our constitutional liberties. In 2013, apparently that's no longer the case.
Which means that it does not say what the result will be when a tug of war between goals happens.
It generally begins in the Movie-Standard high-level, windowless, government briefing room. President and the national security advisors are there. The advisors spill whatever beans are appropriate to the situation. President pulls a Home Alone face and poops his pants.
Obviously, it doesn't let the GHWBs, or any president, off the hook. I imagine it to be a test of the sort of moral character we should focus on when evaluating candidates, rather than whether they inhaled or let a skanky woman sit on their lap while boating.
Maybe candidates should get a briefing six months before the election and then we can make sure we elect a total bastard from the start.
The man does not have principles. He never had them.
Special interests and insiders own Obama just as they have every modern President.
Our system is not run by: Congress + President + Judical. The Pentagon, US military, DOJ, NSA, IRS, FBI, CIA, Homeland Security, Federal Reserve etc are all directly involved in politics.
If you were receiving daily updates outlining the creative and more sinister ways terrorists were planning attacks perhaps you might come to the conclusion that the US is out of its depth and needs every tool at its disposal.
Which ones were real or could have actually pulled anything off? The underwear bomber? The guy that locked his keys in the car? Or the ones the FBI convinces others to attempt? The NSA has been doing this for a long time and have missed things like the Boston bombing while there was plenty of evidence that required further observance. Just looking at some of his public photos, it was apparent to me that he probably should be observed. Those didn't even require these new legal means.
Don't you think if they did successfully stop a really major terrorist attack either Bush or Obama would have ran with it in the open? If it happened in 2008, Obama probably wouldn't have been elected because people would have loved to see these new [horrible] laws stop 9/11 part 2. Bush would have said something like "We told you we needed this and we were right. Without these laws we wouldn't have been able to catch them. These laws saved thousands of lives today and will continue to do so in the future."
However, here we are and nothing major has been found. Now they have the potential for political blackmail that can stop all sorts of challenges to the establishment. One thing many people agree is that Congress sucks and both parties are out of touch with us. They will use these legal means in order to hold onto their power. I do not trust them in the least.
Also, if they can do this, why can't we attach live camera and microphones to all of them? Why can't we make all of their emails public? They want this access to us, why can't we have it for them?
These clowns couldn't catch the bumbling Boston bombers, who were about as unprofessional as terrorists get. And there was no shortage of arrows pointing to them.
There's more than one possible cause here, and possibly more than one of them are the case. Despite the fact that it's much easier to blame external influences.
No, this shows how willing Obama is to cave. We needed a Sam Adams or Lincoln or MLK and instead we got a Benedict Arnold.
The problem being that, in the executive bubble, where most of seats and nearly all of the money is held by the military-industrial complex, that's the consensus you will get.
Being a liberal myself, I'm shocked to see how much Obama has been getting the benefit of the doubt by liberals on all the crap that has been happening lately. The same liberals that qwew quick to criticize and blame Bush on everything, and never extend him the same courtesy.
Amazing what diction can do for public viewpoints. It's equally amazing how many don't care enough to notice the aural cues of the state of being disingenuous.
http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2013/06/09/190092800/bus...
Given the very limited number of hard, verifiable facts about these programs, whether you believe or disbelieve this explanation is almost a matter of faith.
In the investigation of the Hariri assasination such analysis was employed by painstakingly looking into millions of phone calls in Lebonan. If I remember correctly, the UN investigation team identified 4 rings each color coded (red, blue, yellow, and purple) each ring would only call phones in their ring and the ring leaders talked to each other. So you had nodes that talk to each other and one single node would talk to one other node outside of each group. They also correlated the timing of the calls and locations in relation to where the Hariri convoy was on the day of the assassination (eg. a green call made as Hariri left his palace.)
I can't remember the details but the report was a very interesting read.
http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,2089420,00.htm...
http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2010/11/19/f-rfa-macdonal...
Potentially it's an effective way to identify folks who might deserve more investigation. Though it's highly questionable how effective it is as a means of stopping crime or terrorist attacks.
This excellent article was on the HN front page a few days ago:
http://kieranhealy.org/blog/archives/2013/06/09/using-metada...
But it probably also includes location, if only the cell tower used.
As someone who was thrilled to see him elected, I am going to be very relieved to see him flown away on that last day, just like Bush.