Hacker News Reader

Comment by aranw | Hacker News Reader

Wow you really have no idea do you?

Seriously just cause you live in the US and everything is over the top including police force, that doesn't mean its the norm. I can ensure you police force in the US and the use of guns is over the top and unjustified, so was this in the case for Dotcom.

View on HN

I don’t live in the US. Even in the Netherlands, where I live, police raids are a lot larger than just 5 agents and one rifle.

In your country, police officers don’t carry guns and tactical units are armed with flowers?

>In your country, police officers don’t carry guns?

Correct. UK.

The norm is that police officers wear guns, the UK is an exception. But even in the UK, police carry guns and rifles during raids – especially if they suspect to be met with armed resistance (as was the case with Kim Schmitz).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Authorised_Firearms_Officer

Not all raids, no.

I didn’t say ‘all raids’.

Did you read the page you linked to? Guns are only carried by specialized units. While said units will be called in if the circumstances seem to merit it, that's an unusual occurrence; the normal case, even on a raid, is that noone is carrying firearms.

How does any of that contradict my earlier comment?

If the police plans to raid a building which they suspect hosts armed suspects, like in the case of Kim Schmitz, surely they’ll send in units carrying fire arms.

Not that much of an exception.

Countries where Police do not carry guns as part of normal duty:

New Zealand

Japan

Norway

Iceland

Cook Islands

St. Helena

Falkland Islands

Pitcairn Island

sources: http://www.policespecials.com/forum/index.php?/topic/32618-c... http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/50601024

Half of the ‘countries’ on your list are UK territories and 5 out of 206 countries does hardly a norm make.

Add Republic of Ireland to that list

I find that interesting, as police officers in Northern Ireland (part of the UK) do carry firearms. I have to admit I know little about either Irelands, perhaps the situation in the Republic of Ireland is a lot less volatile.

Maybe explain that to Dotcom, who had a shotgun with him in his panic room when they cut him out of it.

Seems like a sensible place to keep a shotgun.

Is hiding from the police in your safe room sensible as well? If they have to cut you out of it, I’d say that constitutes resisting arrest.

As no reasonable police officer would execute a paramilitary operation over copyright infringement, no reasonable person can be expected to believe that the armed thugs busting down his door are police, no matter their claims.

The charges were filed weeks before the raid. Surely he was given numerous opportunities to turn himself in. Also, this was only one of many charges he couldn’ve been brought in for. Kim Schmitz is no boy scout. I don’t underatand why so many people (which includes HN members) idolize him.

Did they ask him to turn himself in?

I can't say I know what New Zealand's procedure for this actually is, but in the US, one of two things would occur in a white-collar case like this: The suspect would either surrender with his attorney at a prearranged time and place, or he would be arrested by a couple of officers who peacefully knock on his door.

Anything else would be seen as grossly excessive force, the fallout of which could easily involve ruined careers and political repercussions.

And I don't know who you're talking about that "idolizes" him. I don't. I actually have no particular opinion about him one way or another, only about the manner in which the case has been handled.

You're the one who seems to be taking things very personally.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com