How An Introvert Learned To Be A Leader | Hacker News Reader

How An Introvert Learned To Be A Leader

blog.tutorspree.com

177 pointsryanb38 comments

I would prefer articles like this were titled 'How Timid People Can Learn to be Leaders'.

I think the author means well, and perhaps this is valid for a certain type of introvert, but these types of articles bother me. I'm an introvert and I have no problem with public speaking, I run my own company and I've been a manager over various teams and project, both large and small.

There is more than one definition of introvert - for me it's the one "A person predominantly concerned with their own thoughts and feelings rather than with external things." If anything, I'm self-centered and self-absorbed, but I am certainly not bashful. I've had it described to me as this: extroverts work out solutions by talking, introverts work out solutions thinking.

Meaning, I think internally, I mull over things in order to get them straight in my head, and I can work for days without speaking to a soul. But I am not shy, bashful or even remotely timid. I think people who use the 'I can't engage because I'm an introvert' would be better served by admitting they are shy and work on that. There is nothing wrong with having an introvert or extrovert mindset, and we need both in the world, but always equating introversion with bashfulness is a mistake in my eyes.

Aren't those some of the exact same points that the author was making?

"People think that being an extrovert means that you like being around people, and therefore an introvert “ doesn’t like people,” but that’s not true. There’s just no way I would have chosen to spend my life working with college students if I didn’t like people!

People also tend to think that introverts have a fear of public speaking, but that’s also a fallacy."

> "People also tend to think that introverts have a fear of public speaking, but that’s also a fallacy."

I just what no. "Fallacy" is not a fancy word for "wrong".

The headline is very bad though, and seemingly oblivious to that point.

Though I disagree with you on your issues with the title of the post, I did really like how you've described your definition of an introvert. That you can prefer to be an introvert but still embody qualities that we associate with extroverts (which is what the article is about.)

Under your definition, I'm definitely an introvert. I have no issues with public speaking, leading people, or being shy.

But if given a choice, I'd rather spend time thinking by myself, I would rather sit quietly and listen to other people in a dinner table, I prefer working on my own, and having peaceful alone time at home to "recharge" instead of going out.

I don't think you read the article

As an introvert I really enjoy articles like this. This world really considers us inferior in many ways, and it's easy to let that get to you. Seeing other introverts speaking out and thinking to myself "yeah! that's me!" is very refreshing.

Quiet: The Power of Introverts really opened my eyes to the fact that other people feel the way I do and that it's alright to be "introverted". I highly recommend it if you haven't read it and this type of subject matter is enjoyable for you.

(non-affil link) http://www.amazon.com/Quiet-Power-Introverts-World-Talking/d...

I came here to recommend the same book, so I'll just second your recommendation. The writing is sometimes a little too cute for its own good, but it's an excellent read.

Thanks! I've not read that. I just ordered it.

Very good points. Listening is a HUGE part of leadership. It's very easy to fall into the charisma trap, but speaking is just a small part of the overall leadership puzzle. It's much easier to learn, think, and get the pulse of an organization when you're not the one doing the talking.

I came here to comment on the listening part, so I'll comment to you since you mentioned it.

The article says that being a good listener is an innate trait of being introvert. I must disagree. Something that is often considered innate in introverts is being self absorbed and self centered.

Introverts can stay quiet, that does not mean they're listening or that they care about what you're saying.

A good exercise imo to become a better listener is to repeat key things the person is saying, to really focus on their words. What comes naturally as an introvert is rather waiting your turn before you speak. Which is also an important component.

I'm not a fan of the introvert-worship on HN and related sites- I see it used as a crutch, an excuse, a softer form of the typical claim to having Asperger's to explain how you can't talk to people. Not saying Asperger's or introversion aren't real problems, just that you can make yourself feel OK sitting inside all night by putting a label on it and talking about it on the internet.

I'm not quiet because I'm an introvert, I'm quiet because of past personal failures wherein I didn't learn social skills because I was dicking around with books and computers all day. So now I'm a loser, but at least I can admit the truth rather than wrapping it in pop-science.

(Btw, clearly the OP is not a case of this - just a related observation)

Don't confuse your own failings with introversion. Many people are happier sitting inside all night. It sounds like you're either an unpopular extrovert, or you've been so conditioned by what society expects us to be that you feel shame for doing what you want to be doing. Either way address your own issues as opposed to bashing others for some perceived notion of faking happiness.

> Not saying Asperger's or introversion aren't real problems,

Not saying Asperger's or introversion are real problems, either!

They are descriptions of a person's tendencies; a diagnosis, not a prognosis. They can be either adaptive or maladaptive, depending on circumstances.

It doesn't matter to an individual how he got that way. (It may matter to observes, as a lesson to them.) What matters more is how to make the most of your life, given your current condition, how to use what you've got to get what you want.

Instead of using the very board labels of extrovert and introvert we should break down the components so we can mix and match and come up with something the describes a person's personality more accurately.

Prepare yourself for an onslaught of comments about Myers-Briggs/eColors/etc.

Personality-type classifications have their uses, but they're wildly over-used in the corporate world (or that's been my experience, anyway).

Just wait until you've worked in an environment where you're required to wear a two-color label based on your personality type (I'm not exaggerating, unfortunately... At least blue and green are my two favorite colors?).

A large problem I've been having with the general online discussion surrounding introversion/extroversion is how definitions and perceptions of those words vary. When I think introversion or extroversion, it's already broken down into the narrowest scope possible - internal validation vs external validation.

Everything else that most people associate with introversion (shyness, social awkwardness, quiet/loud) really has nothing to do with the introvert/extrovert discussion other than they tend to afflict one type more than the other. Correlation, not causation.

Shy, socially awkward, quiet extroverts do exist and they have an even harder time in today's society than shy, socially awkward, quiet introverts. The latter can at least have a rich inner life while the former needs something that's being denied to him - external social acceptance.

Just want to point out that the title difference on this HN post vs the actual blog is offensive to me as an introvert.

"How An Introvert Learned To Be A Leader" as it's written on the blog title is very different than "How Introverts Can Learn to Become Leaders". One makes presumption about the capabilities of introverts in a much stronger and general fashion. The other is a single person's experience.

Sounds good. Warm fuzzy feeling. I'm an introvert too. BUT. Lets be real, how many Fortune 500 CEOs are true introverts. How many entrepreneurs are introverts.

I want to see examples of the introvert leadership style in large/innovative companies. Anyone have any examples?

Old article but still relevant. Cites Gates, Buffett, Schwab, etc.

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/money/companies/management/20...

Not that he's a corporate leader, but FWIW President Obama is also an introvert [1][2].

[1] http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-partisan/post/presi...

[2] http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/16/opinion/sunday/introverts-...

Edit: clarity

The summer before I entered seventh grade, I went to student council camp, which was at the time, and is to this very day, the nerdiest-sounding summer camp I have ever heard of.

Even science-oriented camps like space camp sounded way cooler in comparison.

Yet, that week at The Association of Catholic Student Council's Summer Leadership Conference at Villanova University was a pretty pivotal moment in my adolescence.

However, when I first arrived there, I was overcome by the feeling that I was living a lie and didn't deserve to be at the camp.

The counselors kept talking about how we, as elected student council members, were leaders — and I thought to myself, "If they only knew! I'm no leader. Not only am I not one of the popular kids at my school, I'm probably one of the least popular kids. My election was a total fluke. Nobody in my class expected me to win. I'm no leader. Leaders are popular. Leaders are extroverted and cheery and the life of the party. And that's totally not me."

All through the week, though, the counselors insisted we were leaders, and toward the end of the week, I almost started to buy into it.

And then school started, and I remained one of the least popular kids in my class (or so I thought), and that was the end of that.

But it wasn't, really.

I never became one of the popular kids ... but I did contribute to student council. I did recognize ways to make the school a better place, and I tried to live out one of TACSC's slogans and "Make It Happen."

It wasn't until I hit college that I really started to recognize and appreciate that quiet leadership could be a legitimate form of leadership, and that it could often be much more powerful than loud leadership.

Quiet leadership doesn't draw attention to itself. It is not the type of leadership that uses rallying cries or bullhorns. There's a place for that ... but it's not the only form of leadership out there.

Quiet leadership might involve a person working behind the scenes to get a project done. He may not be the official leader, but he's the one who manages to make things happen.

Quiet leadership is often instructional. When I worked at the campus newspaper in college, I tried to make it a point to give each of the editors who worked below me an opportunity to learn what I did and actually get their hands dirty doing it, since I knew that they would eventually be the ones who would replace me.

Those tutorial sessions didn't involve bombastic speeches — they just involved a guy who wanted to help out.

And that can be leadership.

Simply doing little things that make a difference, even if you're not popular, even if you don't get the credit, even if there's a figurehead involved who takes on the more traditional leadership role, even if it seems like nobody's following you ... that can be leadership.

After all, not ever leader attracts a group of followers from day one. Often, it's not until he's well into his journey that anyone decides to tag along.

And I think it's important to affirm quiet leadership as a legitimate type of leadership, lest anyone like seventh-grader Shaun get discouraged and think that because he doesn't fit the Big Man on Campus mold, he isn't (or couldn't be) a leader.

I do consider myself a leader today, and I encourage any of you who may doubt your leadership abilities to consider that you may not be the type of person we commonly think of as a leader ... but your actions and your aspirations may point to your being much more of a leader than you might think.

People often conflate "leadership" and "management". Leadership isn't about telling, it's about doing, usually doing without having been told. It's about coming to the meeting with what you've implemented, rather than with suggestions. I had more typed up, but really, that's the core point: Leadership and management are two very different things.

> People often conflate "leadership" and "management".

One of the hallmarks of a flopping company is when they start calling the managers "leaders", as though the label would create credibility or legitimacy beyond their managerial authority.

I've found that's true for almost all naming and branding. If you have to try to improve the name of a company/product/job, it probably wasn't a very good company/product/job to begin with OR the name is overly aspirational and the reality is the opposite of what you're trying to name it.

secretary --> executive Assistant

waiter --> server

garbage man --> sanitation engineer

janitor --> custodian

Any company/product that has the word "best" or "fast" --> Not the best or fastest at all

strip club --> gentlemen's club

Etc.

Introversion doesn't necessarily go hand in hand with shy. I just don't want to deal 25 assholes at the same time. I don't get a charge out of that. Once conversations involve more than three it's like the gonads start swinging or something and I lose interest. A confident introvert is a natural leader. I don't even get why this is some sort of revelation.

Introvert or not, what does it say about me that I have absolutely no desire to be a "leader"?

At least not in the 9-5 rat-race definition of such, which basically translates to manager...

"Manager" and "leader" are distinct concepts, and they require distinct skillsets and personality characteristics. Probably the most concise distinction I can make is that a leader is the CEO (they set the vision for the organization), while a manager is the COO (they make the trains run on time). A leader is a change agent: their goal is to envision a better possible future and get people to buy into that future. A manager is a problem-solver: given a vision for the future, their job is to make that vision come true with a minimum of fuss and hiccups. Leaders need creativity, confidence, vision, persistence, and either really good technical skills (to build a demo and show people what's possible) or really good interpersonal & communication skills (to convince other people to build that demo). Managers need organizational skills, interpersonal skills, emotional intelligence, confidence, and really strong listening & communication skills.

It's fairly rare to find both skillsets combined into the same person. Steve Jobs was a great leader but a terrible manager; Tim Cook is a great manager but a terrible leader. Mark Zuckerburg is a leader; Sheryl Sandberg is a manager. Larry Page is a leader; Eric Schmidt is a manager. Steve Wozniak was a leader who had no pretenses for ever being a manager: one of the conditions for founding Apple was that he'd always stay at the bottom of the org chart. Jeff Dean is a leader; Sanjay Ghemawat is a manager (in a metaphorical sense, for both of them; they're both individual contributors).

Leadership often arises out of unexpected quarters: very often, it's strong-willed individuals at the bottom of the org chart who turn out to be the strongest leaders in times of crisis (and then they often rapidly rise through the org chart, at least as long as they find a good manager to partner with to make the trains run on time).

I appreciate the detailed response, I guess I've just been conditioned to equate "leader = manager" on account of their liberal and seemingly interchangeable use in job descriptions and roles (or perhaps that's my own misinterpretation). I do see the difference though, and think that I wouldn't mind being a leader as you describe it, and I believe I have most of the qualities you describe for it. I have thought of myself more as a silent leader (e.g. by example), or through peer coaching, but I am just wary of taking on a managerial role, and it sounds like for good reason: some of those qualities are my weaker points, and I plainly do not enjoy many of those things. Thanks again!

I don't think it says much about you at all. If your goal is to "be a leader" then I think you're a part of the problem. One should aspire to do something great. That may require fulfilling the role of leader at some point, but it should be a means to an end.

It's like a guy I know who wants to run a startup for its own sake. No particular ideas, not very technically minded, no aspirations to make the world better or even to just build something cool. It would simply make a good bullet point on his resume--priorities totally out of whack.

Someone who wants to be a leader as some kind of status symbol are the kinds of narcissists that cause so many problems in this world. The fact that you're not that person says nothing bad about you.

Thanks, that is sort of my thinking too: it's a role and title that's bestowed upon you because you've earned it and proven yourself worthy, as opposed to some formal role within an organization.

Some people have to take charge because it's too stressful for them if they aren't in control. Others want the power/status of managing people. Maybe you just you value other things like family, alone time or cheesecake.

Yes, that last part is definitely part of it -- I've witnessed management, and it scares the hell out of me. I value my off-time way too much, and I refuse to get involved the one-upsmanship game of time clocked at work.

Having done both (leading/managing) I can say that I often have days where I dream of just being the worker bee... if only I could get paid the same.

My friends that are in management have expressed the same desires, but I believe that is mainly because as technical engineers, making the switch to personnel and project management brings with it too many non-technical challenges that can't simply be solved by logic alone.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c0KYU2j0TM4

Hitler was probably the most famous of all introverts who became a leader....

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