Designers Complaining about iOS7 | Hacker News Reader

Designers Complaining about iOS7

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64 pointsot74 comments

Having played around with iOS7 a bit, I can say that I mostly like the new interface. Even the new icons if you ignore the Safari one - something really must have gone wrong there - it feels totally out of place for me.

OTOH, this is the first beta out of probably many (considering how stable thing thing currently is - jokingly I'm telling my colleagues that it's as stable as the average Android phone now), so we might still see some changes there.

Of course, the thing that sold iOS 7 to me is the fact that you can finally place the unused and empty newsstand in a folder :-)

You're joke is sort of correct. It does LOOK about the same as your current, stable Android phone :)

Your "joke" would have some element of humor to it if there were any instability at all with current (or last year, or the year before) Android phones. Amazing how that little bit of irrelevant swill diminishes an entire post.

My Galaxy Nexus was riddled with terrible problems. I love Android and am not trolling. Android still has stability issues.

Unfortunately, my phone was stolen yesterday and now I'm back to using a dumbphone until I can find something better.

These sorts of anecdotes always appear. Here's mine -- Currently have a Galaxy S3 and a Nexus 4. Previously had a Galaxy S2 and Galaxy Glide. Prior to that had a Nexus One. Prior to that had a HTC G1 and G2.

The last time there was any system instability at all was early in the life of the Nexus One. The OS has been absolutely rock solid since.

Of course apps crash on occasion, just as they crash on my 3rd gen iPad and 5th gen iPod Touch. The system stability ruse, however, is noise.

Actually it sounds to me like it was a brilliantly executed troll.

It probably depends heavily on your device. I've had at least a crash a day with my Galaxy Nexus and the Nexus 7 also crashes at times.

By crashing I mean: device reboots suddenly, which is of course a huge improvement over the 2.x days where the device would lock up completely, forcing you to take out the battery.

I have no experience with more recent devices, where it might be even better.

During 2012 I have been using both a Galaxy Nexus and a 4S as my main phone and at least MY galaxy was much crashier than the iPhone which is the origin of the joke.

The remark was intended as a joke, not as stating fact because I only have two devices to compare. Thankfully, it was clearly marked as such though.

Haven't had an android phone in over 6 month now but it wasn't really "stable".

Yes, finally getting to hide Newsstand was lovely. :D

I've been playing with it since yesterday, and I like the new UI. The crashiness is a bit of a pain, though. I honestly like the flatter icons.

For reference, here's an actual screenshot from my phone, rather than just one of Apple's promo images: http://sta.sh/02e3ujebq7hp

The Settings app, Safari app and Compass app icon's are all pretty bad. (too much detail compared to the rest)

I do agree with the general sentiment that the icons, in general, do not fit with the rest of the design decisions.

iOS 7 is the first time that I have seen such arrogant designer elitism ever. If someone does not like the new style, they are of course objectively wrong because every good human knows that Helvetica is without fault, and so are low-contrast flat colours. If you disagree, you should feel bad and obsolete. Oh and be sure to mention stitched leather even though iOS6 didn't ever have that on the phone.

Note that many of the quoted people are not even angry. They are just saying they don't like it, sometimes giving reason. Let's shame this scum! LOL it's just Forstall posting under fake names anyway!

"the first time that I have seen such arrogant designer elitism ever"

You must be new to the Internet. Allow me to show you some pictures of cats and a video of Charlie biting a finger.

I saw the term Neotribalism on HN this morning. This perfectly defines much of the designer elitism that runs rampant throughout the design community.

> You must be new to the Internet.

Hmmm, 15 years, but I have never heard of Neotribalism - so thanks :)

The one thing that I've never seen before is the clear definition of the protagonist and antagonist in the epic battle of skeuomorphism vs flat design: Leather Weirdo Forstall vs Good Taste Ive (e.g. [1]). IMHO that made it much easier to divide people into camps (tribes?). And as if that wasn't enough, Apple used the keynote to feed the fire and polarise.

[1] http://www.fastcodesign.com/1672780/why-jony-ive-is-flatteni...

Who exactly is saying that? I haven't seen anyone say that the iOS7 design is objectively brilliant, just that it's here and everyone has to adjust to it- complaining about it is going to achieve next to nothing because Apple is rarely interested in community feedback.

In all honesty, most of the comments I have seen simply reflect the fact that (warning: generalisation approaching) iOS designers have been on a high horse about how iOS's design is superior to all other platforms, and are now being forced to re-evaluate that stance after Apple has rejected that design.

I double-checked if I misunderstood the blog, but this interstitial & the "about" box makes it sound as if everyone who dislikes iOS 7 couldn't do it better anyway and should be publicly shamed for thinking they could:

> C’mon, all you talented mofo’s… We all know you can do better than ol’ Jony boy. Send in your screenshots of the best iOS, OSX, WWDC and general Apple bashing tweets by using the submit link over there ——>

> I CAN DO IT BETTER THAN YOU!! (even though I've never done that specific thing, ever)

@Gruber: If you don’t think iOS 7 is beautiful, I don’t know what to say to you.

https://twitter.com/gruber/status/344179342764568577

...says a guy entirely reliant on his influence in the Apple marketspace up to and including his newly released software application only available on the Apple App Store?

Oh, that didn't take long - plenty of illustrative responses here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5861585

Stitched leather did make it onto iOS 6, by way of Find My Friends.

I'm not overly for flat design or overly against skeuomorphism, but Find My Friends was horrendous.

Yes, but it has never been part of iOS 6, and still looks the same on iOS 7. It's not even a major app - the current version has half the reviews of Pages, which costs $10, and roughly a tenth of the reviews of the Podcasts app, which mostly duplicates functionality found in the iOS 6 Music app. I'm not sure if there is any metric by which FMF is a major app.

It looks the same on iOS 7 because Apple hasn't updated any of their non-preloaded apps yet. (iTunes Connect, Apple Store, iTunes U, Podcasts, iBooks are all other examples which have not been updated)

Given that FMF made it into the keynote both when it was introduced, and yesterday, I'd say it's important to them. (Not just text on a slide)

Edit: Whoops, I was thinking about Find My iPhone from the keynote yesterday, my bad. It was introduced in a keynote before.

If Helvetica was so great, why did Linotype (subsidiary D. Stempel AG) create Neue Helvetica, a "reworking of the typeface with a more structurally unified set of heights and widths"? :)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helvetica_Neue#Neue_Helvetica_...

Which is the font Apple has been using since iOS 4. iOS 7 uses HelveticaNeue Ultralight. Personally, I prefer Akzidenz-Grotesk.

I'm sorry but it really does look very bad. This http://dribbble.com/shots/1109343-iOS-7-Redesign/attachments... redesign shows how much better it could be.

This designer gets the weather icon correct - the gradient should go in the same direction as the sunrise & sunset - lighter at the horizon, darker above.

Logically, it should be a radial gradient with the light end centered on the sun and the dark end away from it. Ideally, all icons should look like they're lit from above for consistency (light end of gradient at top, dark at bottom). Having some buttons lit from above and some lit from below (or some bulging out and some carved inwards) looks terrible.

The camera icon should revert completely. The lens is the most imporant part of a camera - the camera body is a skeuomorphism. Other than that, I can live with most of the new icons (the redesign does some better - ie, Settings but others are too simplified).

Apple should hire this guy, he has a clue about consistency.

Can't tell if trolling... every single icon has a different drop shadow.

They don't, it's an illusion because the background is a flat grey and some icons are darker than others.

It's consistent because every icon has a gradient, even if subtle - in contrast with the original, where some are flat and others have a 3D effect from the gradient, and some even have a gradient on the opposite direction making a complete mess of convex/concave illusion on the home screen.

It's also consistent because all icons have just the right amount of detail. Compare the safari, clock, compass, notes, reminders, newsstand and passbook icons.

Lastly, he modified the margins back to the original proportions, which are better balanced. Compare the iTunes and App Store icons.

Same thing happens anytime Facebook changes their layout. After a month of using iOS 7, these people will forget what it used to look like.

What's funny about this situation is that most of these designers have probably not even tried iOS 7 and they are already judging the design. All of this coming after Apple emphasized the fact that "design is how it works, not how it looks". I agree that there is room for improvement in the design, but I am starting to sense some elitism and bandwagoning from the design community.

I am starting to sense some elitism and bandwagoning from the design community.

Starting to? That's kind of what the cutting edge of design is all about. When a design advances past certain middle of the road thresholds of usability and tolerably it become more and more just a matter of personal taste. When a bandwagon (or pieces of it) has appeal, it becomes a wider trend. It's still a bandwagon though, styles in the 1980's are(/were?) the go-to example of things that appealed to tastes at the time but are laughable in retrospect.

Design is important in giving products pleasant appearances and interactions, but it's also capable of turning people insufferable. http://news.cnet.com/8301-17852_3-57508907-71/at-apple-hq-ey...

Well, they can judge the icons by screenshots. I personally sometimes think that I am on acid when I look at the icons in IOS 7. Other than that no objections on the changes to "how things work" whatsoever.

Because that worked so well for the Pontiac Aztek?

Apple didn't innovate.

They are following the trends set by others (Microsoft and Google) and I think that is what is infuriating designers.

Can a designer please explain to me what's so bad about the new iOS 7 UI?

(FWIW, I still think the IRIX Indigo Magic Desktop is pretty good looking.)

It's not that there is anything wrong with it, it's just not very "innovative"

The new design can be classified as a "Flat UI" a recent movement in interface design where things like reflective surfaces, borders, and photo-realistic elements are eschewed in favor of a minimalist, iconographic look with bold coloring offsetting neutrally colored text. The aesthetic was heavily popularized by Microsoft in Windows 8 when they introduced the Metro UI. Google also picked up on the aesthetic in their redesign of their web services as well as recent iterations of the Android OS.

Apple has always been the darling of the design community so for them to be late to the party leaves the Apple faithful with a bit of egg on their face. How dare Microsoft dictate what is cool in a world where everything Apple makes is the very definition of hip.

Not only that, there are several major faux paus in the unveiled design that designers are having fits over. Many of the icons in the default interface lack a consistency across different parts of the iOS (like the camera). Any sort of organic rhythm is lost in the palette and seen as jarring. Worst of all, the prized "golden ratio" that Apple has been well known for in their design seems to be gone.

To people who pay that kind of attention to things like this, its an unmitigated disaster.

PS: Also, skeuomorphism. Because it was horrible until Apple got rid of it, apparently.

Thanks for this explanation. It's exactly what I was looking for.

The main thing I dislike is the Helvetica typeface. It's such a bland conservative choice that we have seen in every magazine for decades. The Light style is even worse (less legible). I've only seen the demos of iOS 7 and I'm already sick of Helvetica.

Also it's very white. I use the black theme on my Windows phone (which itself is imperfect). I find dark themes more pleasant.

Otherwise the redesign feels more modern and clean than the current version.

I've been playing around with iOS7 for a few hours and a lot of the issues could be addressed in the next 3 months. Someone should do a redesign like that guy did for the NSA slides[1]. I think the color palette is taking all of the spotlight away from the key technical updates. Even though the updates are features that Android and WinMo users have had for a while, many iOS users are only getting these for the first time. This is a first cut and there is still three months to clean it up.

[1] - http://fr.slideshare.net/EmilandDC/dear-nsa-let-me-take-care...

All the images that Apple has posted so far (unless I've missed some) seem to use the white iPhone, with a blue/pastel background. I'm curious to see how the icons look in different contexts.

I have a white iPhone, so I can't answer that side of your question, but the icon labels change color according to the background (i.e, a dark background gets white labels, a light background gets black ones).

I haven't seen this new design, but one thing I noticed with the flat design trend is that too many strong colors are used, and this causes fatigue in the long run; for example I noticed this in the latest updates to gmail on android.

But I also guess that with a flat design it is inevitable to resort more to color to differentiate your design elements.

I like most of the new flat design but let's be fair those icons are objectively terrible.

Agreed. The icons are easiest part of a redesign to redo and implement tho, and designers on Dribbble have already posted versions that are significantly better. Apple's design team has a few months to fix things up and I'm confident that they will.

http://dribbble.com/shots/1109343-iOS-7-Redesign/attachments...

> The icons are easiest part of a redesign to redo and implement tho

Agreed, but that's why it's so puzzling that these icons were released in the first place. If they're the easiest to do and redo, they should be the easiest to get right.

Also, the iOS 7 video spoke of their new "harmonious" grid system used to design the icons. So I'm unconvinced that the powers-that-be at Apple believe they need fixing.

This is a new style for their designers, and I'm not surprised the visual design still needs some work. This is analogous to a developer learning a new framework - it takes time to learn it and get things right.

Is Apple pulling a standard consulting "leave some things wrong so customer can suggest easy fixes and feel happy with themselves" proposal approach?

This is a beta, after all. Steve Jobs' pedantry about everything being absolutely perfect for a demo may not be Cook's style.

The icons look fine to me, and really design of these icons doesn't matter all that much when they're going to next to all the icons for other downloaded apps. You're never going to get a homescreen full of icons that don't clash with eachother.

If you can get past the icons, the UI itself appears to be much improved. Just looking at the compass app it's much clearer to glance at and get your information without the Master and Commander design of the old one getting in the way.

A lot of people are objecting to the color palette, like which gradients Apple choose to use. Well, you don't accidentally make the iTunes store icon purple. That's a deliberate choice Apple made to be bold.

iOS7 design is weak, with reason. This page is just quoting tweets, but there many in-depth criticism on the many obvious flaws everywhere on the blogosphere.

From the objective to the subjective:

- Complete redesign makes it too different from iOS 6 and OS X, throws away all learnability

- Icons have no consistency whatsoever

- Toolbar icons are so abstract as to be useless

- Legibility suffers from Helvetica Light on bright white, everywhere

- Got rid of affordances, you don't know what is a button anymore (same mistake as WP and some Google apps)

- Control panel is a mess

- Color palette is poor and tacky. You have a true to life display to work with, but limit yourself to primary and secondary, over-saturated hues... just stupid

To be fair, usability increased in many places as in multi-tasking and better use of gesture, although that's hardly innovation - they are just copying tried and true interactions from software both on iOS platform (e.g. Gmail for iOS, Mailbox) and others (webOS, Android).

Overall the UI looks like designed by someone who designs print media and has no clue what they are doing.

This article wraps it up: https://medium.com/i-m-h-o/275a56688510

I agree. The more I use it, the more I dislike it. I'm not a designer, but having worked with several for extended periods, I guess their attention to detail has rubbed off on me. The initial welcome screen on iOS 6 was cool and usable. The new one on iOS 7 kinda just dumps you on a parade of "welcome" without any clear indication on what to do next. So I tapped. And clicked. Then I swiped around. Until, bingo, I found the correct swipe direction. Ditto with the initial lock screen. https://vine.co/v/blZZqDX9dA2 (this is not me).

I was hoping for a common design language, but there really isn't one. http://i.imgur.com/zdMBUGT.png

As someone on reddit said, it looks like a Chinese knockoff of iOS running on Android.

*Oh yeah and the new calendar. Looks great, but now you can't see if you have any events coming up from the calendar view...Ok...That's a step backwards.

I think I'm missing the point - is this supposed to suggest that these people complaining have no right to do so unless they're also elite designers?

Why are all iOS7 screenshots using the iPhone? I suspect iOS7's excessively-detailed icons will look better on a big screen device like the iPad.

The first beta of iOS 7 is only available for iPhone. I'm guessing they're not done with the iPad version yet.

I think if you are going to throw out criticism like this and you yourself are a designer then you should provide some samples of your own work for critique; in an ideal world each would provide their own 'superior' iOS design, or at the minimum a design for a particular feature (icons, use of color, etc).

You don't have to bring your own theories to point flaws in a particular one. You just have to point at an inconsistency. iOS7 has plenty.

I like the new look, not sure what all the fuzz is about. Looks very artistic, specially safari. I prefer this to having lots of detail and shadows in a small icon, that can be left to the app developer. I'm not an iphone user but I'd definitely use one.

The new design cues are more of a technical issue to me than an aesthetic one.

Darker themed phones consume less energy...on more modern screen hardware. While an LCD backlight draws the same power regardless of the colors on screen, AMOLED does not. In fact, AMOLED and a red only profile grants you an amazing device for night use; be it astronomy, reading, etc. because it does not dilate your eyes.

Not only that, AMOLED is the current frontrunner in engineering design to allow for an "infinite bezel" where you aren't sure where the screen ends and the edge begins.

By switching to this bright white look in IOS7, Apple has all be publicly admitted that the next several years will continue to be dominated by LCD technology that drags the progress of screen technology and cost down.

"Design is not just how something looks; it's about how it works." - Steve Jobs, Sir Jony Ive, Dieter Rams and every other half-decent designer worth a damn

yes, and there is nothing worse than presenting a really great solution to a client and they get hung up on the color of an icon.

there are whole blogs devoted to the stupidity of designer's clients - and now this can be witnessed on a global scale.

http://theoatmeal.com/comics/design_hell http://clientsfromhell.net/

compare to the typical criticism right now. the safari icon looks terrible - instant fail! man, i hope the iOS team gets shielded from this outbreak of retardation, lest they slit their wrists.

I'm not sure if you are offering this as a counterpoint; but "not just" seems to reaffirm the point that how it looks still matters.

I think it looks fine. The icons only need to be proportioned a little better with regards to the grid they used for the designs, and the translucency could be dialed down slightly.

Other than that, it looks great. It's amazing how nobody complains about the preschool look of Windows Phone 8, but when iOS icons have a slight disproportion to them, everybody loses their minds.

I'm really glad someone mentioned this. I think by getting away from skeuomorphism Apple will be able to really innovate new design concepts and functionality for iOS7 and future iOS versions.

As a founder who also does our customer support, I got a big chuckle out of this. Its amazing how many people have such visceral reactions to change.

The screenshots I've seen so far remind me of nothing so much as Windows XP.

Funny how it is almost a complete copy of every feature already existent in Android and WP8. They are playing catch-on and it is going too well it seems.

Is this how the smartphone OS market is going to go now? Companies imitating other companies design?

Besides WP7 and WP8's interface, there really hasn't been a huge leap in this space for a while. Is this because companies are simply following the market leader and playing it safe?

when has this not been the case? heck, iOS was just a less-useful PalmOS clone at the start (with better default apps and hardware).

Am I being too optimistic in thinking these interfaces could be a lot better than they are?

It's the copying of what seems like mediocrity is what I was trying to get across.

No, I very much think they could be better :) And tbh, I'm not all that much of a fan of the iOS7 changes, but I'll have to wait and see how it all works together. Screenshots are usually poor examples of a system as a whole.

As to copying mediocrity, what's the best flat style out there now? Or are you referring to flat styles in general? I would expect improvements through iteration, but I can't recall seeing any great flat-ish UIs. I think Windows 8 / phone 7 has some great concepts (live tiles) but poor execution (live tiles, button == label visually). Android is overall decent (though those neon underlines are a bit odd) but they're not very consistent. Individual app implementations are sometimes awe-inspiringly well done but don't necessarily scale up to an OS as a whole.

I'm not sure there's anything but mediocrity right now, similar to when Apple got into the phone market (with something relatively mediocre).

Apple did unveil a few new features (some derivative, some original), but the consumers have focused entirely on the interface, and particularly the icons.

If that's all anybody gets concerned about, where is the pressure to deliver product innovation?

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