Comment by bcn | Hacker News Reader

Comment by bcn | Hacker News Reader

Q: Washington-based foreign affairs analyst Steve Clemons said he overheard at the capital's Dulles airport four men discussing an intelligence conference they had just attended. Speaking about the leaks, one of them said, according to Clemons, that both the reporter and leaker should be "disappeared". How do you feel about that?
In Dulles UAL lounge listening to 4 US intel officials saying loudly leaker & reporter on #NSA stuff should be disappeared recorded a bit — Steve Clemons (@SCClemons) June 8, 2013

A: "Someone responded to the story said 'real spies do not speak like that'. Well, I am a spy and that is how they talk. Whenever we had a debate in the office on how to handle crimes, they do not defend due process – they defend decisive action. They say it is better to kick someone out of a plane than let these people have a day in court. It is an authoritarian mindset in general."

-From the written Q & A, http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/09/nsa-whistleblowe...

The tweet by Steve Clemons- https://twitter.com/SCClemons/status/343392529913356289

How did he know they were "intel" officers? Were they wearing badges? Even if they were some of the thousands of people who who work for intelligence agencies, is there any reason to believe they would have any authority in this matter? Sounds like some guys talking shit at an airport. There's a lot of hysteria regarding this issue which is distracting from a real debate on the underlying issues.

Shop talk is indicative of a general mindset and attitude. "Spies" are not in the business of serving due process. That is the job of lawyers and judges. You would therefore expect that kind of attitude--"if we could, we should just disappear them."

Of course it's shit talk and it's not going to happen. That wasn't the point though. The point was about the attitude.

Intel officers are also not in the habit of "talking shop" in airport lounges... at least they shouldn't be. Even working in a non-classified capacity with a big consulting firm, one of the first things they warned every new employee was never talk about clients or work in public spaces.

They were commenting on public events. Not clients or work.

The CIA did an extraordinary rendition in Italy a few years ago without telling the Italian government. A magistrate investigated and discovered the real names of a dozen or two CIA officers. That was easy because they gave their real names to the hotel and airlines so that they could collect points and miles. Their real names. This is the quality of CIA tradecraft.

If the CIA is filled with officers who give out their real names to every corporate chain that asks nicely, do you really think they're smart enough to keep their mouth shut in public?

Eh, there could be good reason for that. Using a fake identity could arouse suspicion, even if it is advantageous once the rendition is discovered.

These are CIA officers, engaged in a major crime. They have non-official cover identities that are supposed to be used for operations. What possible reason would justify using your real identity when committing serious crimes rather than your agency provided non-official cover identity? Do you think the CIA doesn't know how to make decent cover identities by now? That they're so bad at it that United Airlines or Hilton Hotels will be able to see through them?

Following the lead of corporate America, the CIA has largely given up on having Americans do actual work. CIA agents are managers, and they source local people to do the dirty work. If there's one thing professional managers love more than meetings and power point, it's travel rewards points. As a fan of spy novels and movies, it's a bit sad to think about how in real life, national security could be compromised by an enemy agent offering platinum upgrades.

Hollywood has a bit to answer for here. They give us things like James Bond and Jason Bourne but in reality the people who work in places like CIA are mostly the same kind of muppets who make up the bulk of every other profession.

From their perspective they're not "talking shop", they're just discussing current affairs. Their position as intel people is incidental to the matter, as they presumably don't work in that area.

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