Hacker News Reader

Comment by philipdlang | Hacker News Reader

I've never read such a bitter blog post from a company blog.

Bitter? We are doing just fine and we have intentionally chosen to remain private (17 years and running now). We could sell the whole thing or go public tomorrow if we choose to. So why would we be bitter? My post is to draw a clear contrast between us and one of our principal competitors. We believe our model would work better for customers long term. The post reflects that conviction.

I agree you Sridhar, that you guys have taken a pretty solid approach. I've been fan of zoho for a long time but unfortunately dont really use any of your products right now. I used to use them few years back but somehow lost interest in zoho offerings, dont remember why. I do also think that the blog post is quite bitter. It reflects frustration more than it shows your strength... any case, wish you best of luck and I hope you guys concentrate on each vertical product with more focus, may be with a separate marketing tactic and domain.

Your point is fair. Anytime we criticize a competitor, we risk being perceived as bitter, which is why I rarely post about Salesforce at all. However, I made an exception here because I felt customers should be educated that they aren't just making product choices, they are also making business model and organizational philosophy choices. My conviction is that our approach would result in a better outcome for customers in the long term. Of course, I can be wrong, and the only real proof is execution. Yes, we are focused squarely on execution - which is why I only post once in 6 months or so.

Why don't you just let your product speak for itself?

I don't think a bitter blog post like that accomplishes anything positive.

I read it as an attempt to get press on the coattails of his competitors and the stance as intending to seem "scrappy". Color me an optimist but I don't think the intent was to spew bile.

I believe you're right. I just think it's a piss-poor way to drive business.

I feel that when you have 1600 employees, you're not that scrappy or nimble. It's not like David or Goliath anymore.

We respectfully disagree. Our Zoho Leads iPhone app was launched in under 3 months from concept to shipment, and it was done by 2 people and it is selling! We have a substantial degree of autonomy in the company (possible because we are private) which keeps us nimble.

On David vs Goliath, Microsoft, Google & Salesforce are just 3 of the companies we compete with.

Seems kinda relative right? Compared to 10,000 it isn't a lot.

Isn't that something that the 37 Signals dudes recommend in their book and have been doing for years? you know ... "pick a fight" http://gettingreal.37signals.com/ch02_Have_an_Enemy.php.

Sridhar isn't doing anything different, he's forcing people to pick a side, and guess what ... it usually works.

Not bitter, but it felt like it was written by an old-school rapper:

"You like bitches and stocks, we like builds and money" - Master V(embu)

It doesn't look bitter to me. Proud, yes, but not bitter. Seems like Zoho is playing a long game seeking to be profitable for years to come instead of sell-out for immediate cash.

That being said, I used Zoho before, but left for Google Apps. Recently I revisited Zoho, but decided to keep looking for Google alternatives. Zoho has great a checklist feature set, but somehow it feels too web 1.0. They offer a bunch of services, but the ones I care about mostly like basic PIM (mail, contacts, calendar, tasks) are nood integrated deeply enough and feel like they require an effort to use.

Anyways, good luck to Zoho.

Agreed -- the post had a very bitter/almost jealous tone.

I'm not sure this writing would accomplish more than simply putting your head down and continuing to build the products you claimed are already much better.

I loved that politically incorrect blog post. It summarizes what a private company can say in contrast with a public company where each word is precisely crafted to handle the expectations.

Totally. I felt like this post made the Zoho executive team seem very immature.

Zoho has so-so products, but at least their founder has the right philosophy to invest in R&D, to focus on organic growth and to take care of their products, employees & customers vs. Benioff's failed M&A strategy, which is done to sustain more and more expensive growth and their sky high valuation multiples.

Have you ever used Salesforce as a product?

I tried it and cancelled within a week; it's super-clunky & complicated. He's got great marketing, but the product is crap.

Dismissing Zoho's points based on the author's tone is a bit shortsighted don't you think?

Benioff's headcount is ludicrous when you compare the # of staff he has to 37signals on any reasonable metric ($ of sales per employee across any business function).

Excellent points. He isn't building a profitable, sustainable business. The fundamentals are completely off.

However, based on not-very-reliable data, Zoho's revenue per employee is less than Salesforce

Reply on news.ycombinator.com