Petition to impeach Judge Roger Vinson for authorizing NSA Verizon surveillance | Hacker News Reader

Petition to impeach Judge Roger Vinson for authorizing NSA Verizon surveillance

petitions.whitehouse.gov

120 pointsfearless24 comments

There's plenty of anger to go around, but my understanding is that it's more productive to direct your efforts at legislators who approved the bad laws and the executives who take full opportunity to abuse them -- and not the judges who have a narrow role in this whole saga.

For example, if you live in California, perhaps you could call Dianne Feinstein, who when asked about this program today said, "It's called protecting America."

Feinstein is a long-time advocate for the national security state. She is up for reelection in 2018 in a state where she will not have a credible challenger from another party in a general election or her own party in the primaries.

You can contact her if you feel better. As for me, I have a folder full of form letter responses from her office explaining why it's so important that our civil liberties and privacy be curtailed to ensure our security. I don't think adding another letter to my collection will help anything. And I doubt her responses will do anything other than enrage you further.

The only sensible response at this point is to work to get her out of office in 2018. But I don't have hope for that, either.

100% agree here. I loath that she is has no challengers. I had heard that she was going to retire and not run in 2012. I was so looking forward to that primary and when I saw her name on it my heart fell.

Unfortunately, the best we can hope for is that she retires in 2018.

Your understanding is wrong. It is a very good thing to both go after the legislators and those who actually tactically implement injustice.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuremberg_Trials

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judgment_at_Nuremberg

A bill of impeachment has to be filed in the House of Representatives. The White House has nothing to do with this. This petition is a waste of time. If you're upset, try to convince your Congressman.

At least it might send a message to the White House about this. Although, maybe this one serves that purpose better:

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/cease-overbroad-su...

I'm convinced that the Whitehouse petitions platform is just a pressure release valve - a way to bleed off frustration so it's not manifested in more politically-weighty ways.

This! Over and over again. Whenever I see one of those petition discussion I am just baffled by the naiveté of people.

If this petition "passes", it will help as one of many arguments to convince your Congressman

Absolutely!

The petition site is just the White House's way of trolling the internet into thinking they care about "internet problems".

I used to write letters and call up my congressmen. I feel it doesn't have impact that it used to. It seems money talks in todays politics. Donating to EFF will probably be more effective.

Is the judge really so at fault at this? Serious question - do they have right to refuse approval under current legislation and can the administration just judge shop until they find a more susceptible judge?

AIUI, no, the FISA court is pretty much a rubber stamp with a security clearance.

Possibly the judge should have ruled that the law was unconstitutional and therefore void. The legislature cannot make laws that contradict the constitution.

I had put up a similar petition here, which targets more widespread change: https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/cease-overbroad-su...

The more signatures on both, the better the chance of an official response.

Until you can overcome the R and D machines and convince the 20% of people who vote stupidly to do something different other than pull the straight party lever nothing will ever change. You can also forget about civil war or something like that as they have nailed before you even think about it.

What authority does the Whitehouse have to force congress to hold a congressional investigation?

Wow, you guys are in full-jerk mode today!

Currently, I am seeing 16/30 articles on the front page describing the same thing.

So much press and attention on this today, when James Bramford surfaced even more intrusive and comprehensive `See Clearly, Act Quickly' surveillance in his 2008 book Shadow Factory. That's now five years ago.

What types of surveillance did he expose?

Israeli(then, now BOEING) NARUS(R U NSA(?)) built `glass vampire' boxes at all (6?) main trunk ATT overseas (routers?) scraping voice flagged words, names. Lengthy detail of Bush administration free reign of (all?) domestic digital surveillance. I may have this wrong, I read this some four, five years ago. Scared me then scares me still. See Amazon review, Wikipedia, etc. There's Youtube Bramford interviews, and more recently William Binney whistle blowing -quite disturbing re: NSA execs revolving door with huge growth of vast intelligence industrial complex.

I seriously don't get why people would ever submit their information to wh.gov. It's like you are adding yourself to Obama's enemy list. I'm sure Obama is going to overturn a spy program he signs off just because some rabble rousers signed an online form. The US constitution is dead. He doesn't give a damn.

It strikes me as silly to act as if individual presidents are reigning like kings and deciding much of this either way. We construct systems and these systems take on lives of their own (I don't mean AI, I'm for example thinking of capitalism). Individuals get shaped by those systems and get ideas that they're acting 'n shit, and of course it does make a slight difference who exactly is president, but what matters much more are the bigger structures and the dynamics inherent in them.

We're dealing with monsters made up of many people who I am sure are actually trying to be decent people as individuals. And even if they were ALL ranging from jerks to really evil, it's not them that makes this suck so much, it's the combination of billions of people being mediocre and incredible technology. That alone is enough, no super villains needed, sadly.

TL;DR stop playing into the hands of the cancer that is taking figureheads as the substance.

oh, and here's to the button monkeys:

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/07/opinion/president-obamas-d...

"The administration has now lost all credibility. Mr. Obama is proving the truism that the executive will use any power it is given and very likely abuse it."

So it's okay to submit as an article, just not for a mere mortal commenter to basically say the same fucking thing. Which reminds me, I use phrases like "'n shit" to distance myself from you lot. I could "polite talk" like the best of them, I just don't trust people who can't say "fuck", so I don't see a reason to. Think of it as garlic to vampires.

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