The entrepreneurial adventures of a coder living in a tent in the forest | Hacker News Reader

The entrepreneurial adventures of a coder living in a tent in the forest

thomasbacklund.com

170 pointsalexholehouse80 comments

Hi peeps,

This was a nice surprise getting on HN =)

First of all, I was a weirdo before I moved to the forest. But now I'm a very happy weirdo.

I do have 4G (LTE) broad band, so Internet is almost everywhere I go.

I come from Stockholm but I live now on a trail called Sörmlandsleden, it's a 1000 km long trail and for the moment I'm pretty far south from Stockholm. But the trail never goes out "into the wild".

I also think that there is a right time for things. What I need now is to blaze forward with the coding. That's this phase.

I take swims in the lake and keep clean, shave once a week. Wash my clothes.. So when I do go into town to buy food or meet someone, I do not look like some troll. So meeting potential customers is not a big problem. I just have to get up really early in the morning to get there.. =)

I'm happy so many both here on HN and on The ListServe are interested in coding in the forest and giving support.

When winter comes I do not know what I'll do, but coding in the snow is not an option. But I will not surrender to any "normal" life until the startup begins to move, according to my earlier pledge.

Thanks!

ps. there are no bears around here.

Why not? You could make a snowhole to live in. I know someone who knits coding gloves, too. :)

As soon i get my moped i am gonna go you. /John from Funplanet :)

Welcome :)

How do you manage electricity for your computers?

Somewhat off-topic; but if you're wondering how this became a story on HN: it was submitted to the ListServe a bit over an hour ago.

The ListServe is a really cool email lottery where every day one person wins the chance to send an email to everyone else on the list, and the results have been nothing short of mesmerizing so far.

http://thelistserve.com/

My friend also runs the ListServe Archive. It's quite interesting to dig through some of the older submissions and see the variety of the content.

http://thelistservearchive.com/

Direct link to the email for this story, which also contains interesting details not on the site:

http://thelistservearchive.com/2013/06/06.html

Given that they have >22k subscribers already, the chances of actually getting to say something in your lifetime are pretty low - assuming nobody else joins and there are no repeats, it would take over 60 years for everyone to get to post once.

That said, it sounds interesting, as a "15 minutes of fame lottery" at least.

Someone should create something like ListServe, where there were that many subscribers, but I had a higher chance of getting selected :-)

It's well worth it for the range of people and emails. It adds a little spice to every day, and usually gives you something to think about. A little peak into how crazy different everyone lives their lives. It doesn't really matter to me if I'm never picked. In fact, I probably wouldn't want to be picked...

I was going to post something similar, thanks. I was really intrigued by what the HN community's reaction to this would be.

I spent two years driving from Alaska->Argentina, living in my tent and cooking on my little camp stove.[1]

I'm a Software Engineer, so I did a few freelance projects along the way. It was perfect to get online somewhere, get all the stuff I needed, then drive out to the wilderness for a week or more while I coded everything up. I'd come back into a town, upload what I needed to and continue on my merry way.

[1] http://theroadchoseme.com

In another life, long before taking up coding, I spent 6 months in the mountains of southern Spain (near Grenada) living in a Rainbow community where tepees were the lodging of choice.

Amazing experience, obviously not much "work" getting done ;-)...except for this English guy, lived in a crude stone structure on the range across the way from where the community was situated. Somehow he had electricity, either through solar panels or running a mega cable to the small village higher up the range.

Anyway, he was a programmer (this is in the mid-90s, BTW) working for a bank in England -- would mail floppy disks to his employer.

Looking back now, I salute him deeply, living on the edge (literally of a mountain range) hanging out with a group of 200+ crazy pot/shroom/lsd huffing hippies -- how he got any work done is beyond me ;-)

Time flies...

I had childhood friends living way out in the Ozark Mountains of Arkansas. They had electricity and telephone service. On a pole at the bottom of their pasture was a directional antenna connected to a cordless telephone base station. One time we took a hike down the mountain, along the creek and up the other side. There was the homestead of the family who's telephone that was. They lived in a hexagonal treehouse and an old school bus. They had solar power and the handset connected to another home-made antenna pointing across the valley. The father was a programmer.

He wrote software for parking meters and used a hand-held GPS receiver to keep track of the ginseng he had planted in the National Forest.

I spent a good amount of time in those mountains, I have family with property in Mt. Judea.

Wonderful place.

If I did what this man did (which I often contemplate), I would likely do it on their property--I have an open invitation.

So instead of ramen profitable, we have tent profitable now.

I'm sure it's possible to sit in isolation and create a livable startup. In my experience, though, the best things professionally, such as bizdev deals, finding people to work with or making large sales, come from personal connections. That is, people that you've actually met.

I love the outdoors and I love to code as well. This sounds super fun and I'm kind of jealous of that lifestyle, but I'm not sure if it's a sound business decision.

Life is full of phases. I don't think anyone would recommend someone do this for all their life, but for a time and place, it might be the best decision ever made.

Thanks, thats kind of how I see it too =)

This is awesome. Personally, I occasionally daydream of "escaping it all" and coding by the ocean.

This piece reminded me of someone else who "escaped it all": Paul Lutus [1].

In the spring of 1976, he built a 12 x 16 foot (3.65 x 4.87 meter) cabin in Oregon and developed Apple Writer [2] on his Apple II. He documented his story in a piece entitled, Cottage Computer Programming [3].

[1] http://www.arachnoid.com/administration/index.html

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Writer

[3] http://www.atariarchives.org/deli/cottage_computer_programmi...

Boats provide some of the cheapest rent and best views in the Bay Area. Paid less than one year's worth of rent to buy a 42' motor boat and parked it over by Oakland where my monthly liveaboard slip fee is just over $500/month. If you need to be in or around SF and are trying to save on rent, I can't encourage people enough to try it out.

When marinas become full of thrify tech workers, slip fees increase, people bid up any available slip (used boat), and real boaters are forced out, then you will have encouraged people enough.

I always dreamed of living on a sailboat, docked wherever I choose.. Mobile apt! Why not!? People think I'm crazy when I talk about it.

Good tip, you never know when it's time for SF.

Glad you brought him up. I learned about him reading his book about solo sailing around the world in a 31 foot boat. Good read even if you aren't interested in sailing. Free ebook here: http://www.arachnoid.com/sailbook/

He used to post here on HN: https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=lutusp

It's been a while, but perhaps he's on his boat.

I've found Lutus to be a valuable participant/contributor to HN. And, both inside and outside of HN, a kind if forthright person advocating for understanding of and quality in the topic at hand.

His work is well worth exploring.

I'm left wondering why I wrote this... "meta" comment. I guess because some of this insight and excellence seems to benefit from if not require a certain independence of spirit and perhaps a corresponding sense of perspective.

Thank you for this link. As a sailor and coder this seems to be a great fit for me, and I'll be reading it right away. Much obliged.

He's also a ham, I'm looking forward to using JRX once my buddy sends me back my Icom PCR.

Wow, props for going "all the way".

I have to wonder though, is this a wise choice? If the product alone, e.g. the code, is what drives investment it surely is.. But I would guess that's only one of many factors. People are scared away from others that are too different when it comes to things like behaviour and clothing.

How long can he live in the forest before he's too "weird" to make meaningful connections to customers and investors? My guess is 2 days =/

Unless you're running a b2c SaaS, this might not be a good idea.

I'd expect the Swedish winter will probably make a significant impact on an end-date decision. This is super cool and doable now, but when it hits 0 and is light for 7 hours a day it may not be worth it.

Still - that's in 4-5 months - plenty of time to be hugely productive while keeping living costs to a minimum.

You ask "is this a wise choice" but I think in fact there isn't much of a choice.

If you want to work on your idea full-time, you need time. If you need time, you have to quit your full-time job doing something else. If you don't have income from your job, you can't afford an apartment.

One could argue you could try to get funding for your idea, but what if you want to make it free and open source and owned by humans rather than any specific corporation?

He does say "until my startup takes off". I don't think this is really that much different from the kid who kept sneaking into a big corp's office (was it YCombinator?) and sleeping under a table in a sleeping bag until he got caught. He's also wisely doing this during a Swedish summer, where the daylight hours are so extreme that everyone's behaviour changes anyway (well, that's what we get here in England anyhow….)

Well, isn't it hard to make a startup take off without ever physically interacting with other people?

A few years ago I was writing my master's thesis, and because I was in a hurry at the end and I didn't have any lectures I was spending a lot of time more or less alone. After only a few days with limited human interaction I picked up some strange behaviours. Nothing major. But surely stuff other people with normal social skills could pick up on. Like humming when I was getting my groceries and my small talk was way off. Unlike him, I had access to a shower and clean clothes. (actually, showering each day is kind of a waste of time if you spend it alone anyway ;)

I would rather work with him in the forest than most startups in San Fran in an office personally. But that's because i abhor offices - they're the downfall of humanity.

It was AOL:

http://news.cnet.com/8301-32973_3-57440513-296/meet-the-tire...

On the same vein, the Apple Graphing Calculator story:

http://www.pacifict.com/Story/

I've known people who lived off in the woods for a while, and thought they were fine. Of course maybe that says something about me.

Couldn't help but notice that his April entry refers to 'trying out new wilderness recipes', and his next May entry refers to 'a rough time with food poisoning'.

Haha, yeah.. But the food poisoning come from some nasty sliced pepper salami I had for dinner. (Can't even think about them..) That was one b a d day..... Luckily a friend of mine did a rescue mission and brought me some coke and salts in the evening.. =)

Hah, good to hear it. I've had a similar experience with chorizo... I used to love that wonderful spiced sausage. We are no longer on speaking terms.

Thanks for the post - it's rekindled my interest in spending some time outdoors, though I'll have to wait till the temperature returns to something reasonable.

Now my coworkers can't think i'm the weirdest coder ever for moving to Montana...at least i'm in a house!

Also to offer a prospective, while this sort of thing does change ones ability to interact personally I've found that it is also a hugh boost for productivity...I can code for hours, go climb a mountain to clear my mind and then keep coding.

It also seems like Thomas has found a great way to get publicity depending on what his target demographic is.

This is really cool and I'm glad to hear of someone doing this. Having the time to learn and work is key. It's hard to make any real progress when you're still trying to maintain a social life and work full time.

An idea: It might be much much easier to simply move to Mexico or Thailand. You could live on around $200-300 USD per month if you made your own food and you'd probably be a lot more comfortable than living in the woods (though I think that's amazing in its own way too).

Does anyone know of any dev boot camps or coworking spaces in the "developing world" that I should check out?

Or India. I live in Udaipur and there are many people from US/Europe staying here for months. $300/mo will take care of both food and stay. You can even teach language to make some money. I know a few people who have been living here like this for last 6 years.

Thanks!

Get out of the building - love it!

Currently doing something similar - not a coder though, I'm living on Rugen Island in Germany. Made my first fire last night (embarrassed to say I'm 32 years old) and it gave me a kind of satisfaction I've not felt for a long time.

Feeling a lot more creative out here - enjoying being reconnected to nature. Spent 3 months in Brooklyn earlier in the year - the contrast is unreal. For me living in the city feels so toxic now. I want to make this a more permanent living arrangement - that's my next goal.

I absolutely love this. I'm jealous. I've been thinking about doing this, even if just once per year for 1-2 weeks. Some type of personal code jam, a chance to fully focus on personal projects distraction free.

I just did some research into the solar panels, they look fantastic but they're a little pricey. (~1000$ each) A little more digging gives me the impression that one could fairly easily DIY similar solar panels for considerable less, though obviously at much less quality.

Why not just rent a cabin in the woods with 2 weeks vacation time?

Just wait for winter, Thomas.

I'm from the south of Sweden and even I wouldn't like to be living in a tent come winter. He better stop coding and start building some proper shelter. ;)

As they say "winter is coming".. Yeah, when winter does come it will be hard using the electronics.. We'll see where I'll go then I guess.

But what about wi-fi? Even if his thing doesn't require Internet, still, no Stackoverflow?

In his first post (http://thomasbacklund.com/2013/03/lean-startup/) he mentions some of the tools he's bringing with him. This includes mobile broadband.

This made me laugh. A Swedish forest in the 2010s is an "easier" place to program than in your basement in the 1990s.

Apparently Swedish forests have 3G coverage.

Our 3G and 4G networks is quite good, I've good connection in both of my summer houses - which basically is in the middle of nowhere...

Surely there's 3G, 4G or whatever coverage? The forest is probably pretty close to Stockholm

The food poisoning reminded me of "Into The Wild"

Apparently the plant poisoning in the movie (and postulated in the book) weren't correct. If you read the Wikipedia on McCandless[1] research into how he died has made it clear that it was just plain old rabbit starvation[2].

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_McCandless

[2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rabbit_starvation

Finally watched that movie on Tuesday night, I loved it, a very interesting story - made we want to get outside more!

Beautiful movie and soundtrack. There's two guys that rode a lot of the landmarks of the movie/book on mountain bikes: http://forums.mtbr.com/passion/mountain-bike-version-into-wi...

Damn, I'm jealous... Coding, writing, or doing any sort of work is always better outdoors, on a beach or in a forest.

Sounds like an adventure, and lots of fun. I frequently take long trips through the forest, back-country camping, but we do have bears, mountain lions, and the potential of blizzards in August (and laws that govern what we can and can't do in our wild spaces).

I hope your start-up is a success, and if it isn't, at least you'll have had an adventure and a story to tell (but I hope you success).

Good luck! I think it's a great way to live close to nature for a while. Camped once in the forest in Finland near a lake for a week with my gf, eating fresh fish every day and drinking spring water is awesome, can't wait to do it again sometime.

I also lived in a tent in London, in my garden, for 3-4 months (weekdays only) while my house was being renovated and extended - it's fine. I did it until November, in Sweden you'll want to move back indoors a couple of months earlier.

This is amazing, but I can only thing of the terrible screen glare issues from working outdoors. Yuck!

It is some of a problem. Especially because I must keep display strength to a minimum to save battery. But it works. I use the colorsheme morning (think its part of solarized) in Vim and let the sun hit the screen. And then when the screen gets to hot I move to the shade and use Jellybeans colorsheme.

Really wish there were decent ultrabooks with e-ink displays for working in the sun. This is the only commercially available product i've seen - http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2125333

I wish more startups would spend all of their time out of doors in outdoor offices. I keep wanting an outdoor covered workspace here in Texas, even when it's 100 Farenheit outside. I think offices dull the senses, and separate us from the world.

Agree on that. There is some overhead in making food and taking care of the camp but there is also another peace of mind that (we'll see if) could be good for your creativity.

But in either way, I feel very good on the inside now. No stress. Just harmony. Still getting a lot of things done.

Everytime I see you reply to this thread, I have to remind myself that you are actually out in the woods right now, probably sitting by that lake as you type the comment.

I looked into trying something like this and abandoned the idea after a little research into the power issues and realizing what an ergonomic disaster it would be for me. Props to this guy, though, for following his dream.

Maybe he is taking "Lean Startup" a bit too seriously ;-)

But otherwise great idea. I wonder how far into the swedish wilderness their mobile broadband extends and how soon someone is going to rob him of his posessions...

There is pretty good countrywide 3G coverage in all Nordic countries. I remember uploading images to Flickr from tens of kilometres from human habitations about six years ago.

Also, these countries are very safe. Hard to imagine somebody coming to your camp to take away a laptop.

This is so cool. Someone should set up a startup house that is a giant log cabin in the middle of some remote forest (but with a fiber connection of course). I would totally pay to be there.

Awesome, it's a code camp with actual camping!

On a related note, does anyone know if it would even be possible to do something like this in the USA (short of buying a few hundred acres with a lake on it)?

Wow this is really exciting. After reading his experience via his posts i feel like at least before i die i wish to experience such thing once for sure.

how do you do customer development in a forest, unless all your customers are gorillas and bears.

This guy is living my dream.

Reminds me of "Doppler" by Erlend Loe :)

For the lazy: http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1156439.Doppler

Exactly what my family said :) "Your doing a Doppler!"

A former coworker of mine.

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