The hidden sexism in CS departments | Hacker News Reader

The hidden sexism in CS departments

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10 pointsr4vik20 comments

This kind of sexism isnt really isolated to CS unfortunately.

If that guy had called the author the n word, which I'm not sure I can even type without offending someone, the situation would have been handled differently. Interestingly, society will still tolerate derogatory behavior towards certain groups of people, but not others.

Also if that guy were a woman, and the author was a man and the interaction were something like "...I dont like some dick/asshole/jerk* telling me what to do", then the issue wouldn't be about sexism, it would be about one person being inappropriately hostile toward another.

For the sake of discussion, I wonder if it is more useful to boil some feminist issues down into people issues so that more people can relate and respond.

Instead of addressing it as sexism, I wonder if the author brought it up as generic hostile behavior, would the situation have been handled differently... maybe not?

No one of any stripe or colour should have to deal with that kind of attitude in the workplace, whether or not it is sexist, racist, homophobic, or just generically mean, but managers/supervisors can be conflict adverse, and try to avoid reprimanding people in general. Having to deal with the situation is just more work on their plate.

I wonder these things, because I have my own very likely sexism influenced "situation" at work with my boss. Everyone agrees that he is being a jerk, there is no argument there. I also happen to LOVE to explore and discuss gender issues, but when I bring up this situation or others with that lens, peoples' eyes cloud over.

I'm sorry, but please learn to differentiate between a shitty day and overall sexism. When people are angry, they'll strike so that it hits the hardest, it just so happened that it was a woman and the derogatory term against her is 'bitch'. So, please, get over yourself, and report the incident as an incident, not as a case.

Also, tell the kid to grow up, it might help him in life.

And the other part of this is the social skills lesson: [many] people do not like being told what to do and may get angry, even if telling them was from your perspective a rational action.

It's no different from how people don't like being told they're wrong, even if they objectively are.

I think pressing the issue has to do with if its systemic of the department or an isolated incident at an individual level. If the student has only one complaint against him, I don't know if a reprimand is worthy unless you had multiple parties who felt it was completely out of line. I think making the party aware that how it made you feel is probably the best thing you can do.

Also FYI to the original poster: I'm not sure how private you want the post to be, but just the references to team leaders and fishbowl lets me know you and I went to the same Nike funded school.

I'm not sure how much anonymity matters, but I was able to deduce this rather quickly. I'm long graduated and hold a different degree so I don't know any of the parties but just be wary.

You can't have it both ways. If you don't want to be seen as a nag or as 'the next Adria Richards,' don't bring this up with the faculty department head after a single incident. Single incidents are handled between or amongst the people involved, or they are ignored.

Chronic behavior warrants administrative attention, though. The language and behavior described in this article _is_ wrong, and if it happened all the time it would absolutely warrant intervention.

Here's the problem:

"I immediately apologized"

Why?

That is certainly not 'the' problem, which implies that her apology was the only thing anyone in the story should have done differently.

Sexism is if you're Noether in 1915 and you can't get a faculty postion because you're a woman.

Sexism is not if you are being a nag and you get called a bitch as a result. The guy in the story just sounds like a jerk who wasn't taking his TA responsibility seriously.

Finally, even if there were sexism in that one CS departmenT it wouldn't mean that there's hidden sexism in CS departmentS. That's just stupidity and assumption.

Because one female had a problem in one CS department, she implies the same problem exists everywhere from Timbuktu to Helsinki?

It was abuse, using a misogynistic word, in a department where there is already a dearth of women due to the hostility they face. Brushing it under the carpet by denying her experience isn't helpful. You don't need to read this story to learn of sexism in CS departments, just ask any woman who does computer science and you can hear plenty of stories.

Right, but it's an anecdote. The title of the piece suggests some sort of comprehensive study, but fails to deliver anything beyond a single story of friction between two people (one of whom clearly has women issues).

"Bitch" being a misogynistic term is a stretch...

Its more about what was communicated/interpreted than the actual words.

Take for instance: "I'm not going to let some bitch tell me what to do" vs. "Hey bitches, whats up?"

the first statement could communicate that the speaker has issues with females telling him what to do. The second statement is playful and affectionate.

However, because the word bitch is so generic and well used, the first speaker could easily only have issues with unpleasant people, not females. Its not clear.

That's why it is better to talk about a person's pattern of behavior, rather than labeling an isolated incident as sexism.

where there is already a dearth of women due to the hostility they face

Where the hell did you pull that from? I suppose there's a "dearth" of men in nursing too? Can I infer an epidemic of misandry because we don't have 50% male nurses? Ludicrous.

just ask any woman

Yeah, because the plural of anecdote is data </sarcasm>

Sexism can manifest itself in many ways, and the subtle ways arent less legitimate concerns just because it could be worse. "At least youre not getting beaten, be thankful for that".

Sexism can totally be if you are a "nag" and get called a "bitch"!

Talking about an isolated relatively minor situation with the lens of sexism becomes difficult, because without establishing a pattern of behavior, its hard to determine if the situation is sexism or not.

What happens when many females encounter similar attitudes in many CS work spaces. Will we still deny that society isnt perfect?

Sexism can totally be

That's just an unbacked assertion; come back with something better.

"nag" and get called a "bitch"!

If you are a nag you probably deserve to get called a bitch. I'm fairly certain if I nag like the OP, I'll get called a bitch, and I'm not a girl. If that's sexism, I supposed it's misandry if I get called a dick. Lame.

What happens when many females encounter similar attitudes in many CS work spaces

What happens is that it will be demonstrable with a valid statistical test, instead of being stretched from one anecdote to a complaint about CS DepartmentS in general, which the idiotic OP did. I'm waiting for you to produce the stats.

"Come back with something better", "I am waiting on you to produce the stats", "<crickets/>"

...um, why would I want to engage in a discussion with someone who communicates like this?

Also before you insult people's arguments by attempting to devalue them as assertions lacking proof, make sure you are also not guilty of the same. You use a lot of absolute language for someone concerned with evidence.

Lots of things in life cant be proved, does that mean we cant talk about them like mature and curious adults?

"Mature adults" don't make allegations without evidence, like Swept under the rug: the hidden sexism in CS departments

why would I want

The hell with your feelings, this is about true and false. Back up what you say or shut the hell up.

Note to self: dont feed trolls.

Yeah you had to delete your posts because they made you look bad.

Note to myself: beware cowardly, feminist frauds

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