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Comment by Caskman | Hacker News Reader

How did they alienate gamers? Gamers know first and foremost that XBox is a gaming console. They should especially know that after being shown the demo of CoD Ghost. This really is a great move for them, as gamers see the benefit of additional functionality and non-gamers see an intriguing entertainment platform.

I'm a diehard PC fan though so I probably won't get a console anyways

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The event's games presentations were oriented to what is usually called the "Bro gamer" demographic (e.g. Madden/FIFA/CoD) ... It focused on TV, for which many of the core gamers don't care. Contrast this to the PS4 announcement, which had many developers and a lot of talk about how the platform is going to be more "open" for the small guys, and it felt really passionate about the "for-gamers" features. As a gamer, I feel like the PS4 is where the real passion for games is, where someone actually cared to provide tools for the "indie" crowd (who, arguably, are doing the good games these days) ... Meanwhile, microsoft is showing a TV machine, has forgotten the indie channel and has killed XNA. If you don't understand why this was dissapointing for gamers, it's most probably because you are not a gamer yourself I guess. Honestly it felt passionless, pointless and underwhelming. It wasn't a blunder or anything, of course. It was just meh.

That announcement trailer felt like a car commercial

"what is usually called the 'bro gamer' demographic"?

Just because I like Madden, I'm a "bro gamer" now? Get over yourself.

'bro gamer' is just a term used by some gamers to feel superior to the CoD demographic (which is everybody). It seems to me to be a kind of signaling used to mark themselves out as 'serious' gamers who think about 'serious' issues while they blow stuff up and shoot zombies.

It's not everybody. CoD has a very large demographic and it encompasses a significant chunk of the console and hardcore PC gaming market, and they're better games than people give credit for, but they're far from universal appeal.

It's not a a stretch to call FPS games low brow.

I don't play FPS games, but I know smart and sensitive people who do. They don't pretend it's not a badly justified gorefest though, just like smart people who listen to Manowar don't.

A lot of people are very let down by games that get reviews just gushing over the plot and the atmosphere and puzzles but end up being 90% gore and FPS (like Bioshock for example).

But the referent of the "bro gamer" slight is not the game as you seem to be arguing, but the gamer.

Chill out dude. I didn't say you were a bro gamer, I didn't say I agreed with the term. I tried to answer Caskain's question on "how did they alienate gamers", and yes, part of it is the sentiment of catering to bro gamers. But notice the usage of quotes. Follow your own advice.

Okay "hipster gamer". Notice the usage of quotes.

The point you're making is essentially that people that might enjoy popular franchises or particular genres of games aren't "real gamers" but a lower, subclass of gamers.

The point I'm making is that just because someone enjoys playing Madden (or football) does not mean that they don't also enjoy smaller, independent games ('yeah, most people have never heard of it'). We can be "gamers" too you know...

No your logic is just incorrect. This is simple propositional logic. If P -> Q does not imply If Q -> P. Bro gamers tend to like games like Madden & CoD. Because you like Madden & CoD does not make you a bro gamer.

What is the defining characteristic of a "bro gamer" then?

It's bros... that are gamers.

It's true =\

I appreciate your honesty ;-)

Well, if you only like Madden, you probably are. It's like if you collected art, but only art with football players in it.

You sir or madam have just given me my next startup idea.

http://www.americanfineartgallery.com/artists/Leroy_Neiman/s...

E3 is in three weeks. They didn't want this event to focus on games, because then they'd have nothing to show at E3. But they still showed some games just to prove it had working hardware.

But the focus for the respective presentations could be be said to be reflective of each company's priorities for their new machine?

Agreed. I don't think Microsoft has to focus on the 'game' aspect of the new Xbox - the people making games for it will do that, and we know the hardware is sufficient for the next console iteration. They are focusing on the rest of the experience, which is completely under their control. I think it's a smart play and the standard gaming media is missing the point really hard.

Well, they announced that games would require an install to the HDD, and Wired got a confirmation from MSFT that one would have to pay a fee to install the game to another Xbox. So now people who sell their games will have their resale value reduced and people who take games to their friends' house will have to pay for the privilege.

Not exactly gamer friendly.

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