Xbox One Revealed | Hacker News Reader

Xbox One Revealed

news.xbox.com

79 pointsjordn91 comments

A lot of my friends have made jokes about why its being called the One, when its a third generation console. I think its pretty illustrative:

Microsoft wants you to have one thing in your living room. Sony and Nintendo are doubling down on gaming. Microsoft wants the whole pie -- which is why you hear them use the word 'entertainment' more than 'gaming', which is why we waited twenty five minutes to see a game demo.

If my anecdotal evidence is worth anything, they're going to succeed. Living in a house with three other college students, we spent just as much time on the dedicated YouTube and Netflix apps as we did on FIFA and Skyrim.

(A goofier interpretation is they're hoping people eventually call it 'the One' just like people call its predecessor 'the 360.')

Microsoft's track record on convergence devices isn't exactly stellar. Zune, Windows 8, even the newer Xbox Dashboard releases.

When MS has traditionally shipped decent software is when they've tried to do one thing well, ala Visual Studio.

Not sure I agree. Xbox is a huge driver of Netflix/Hulu traffic. There's a lot of TV/movie watching which happens inside.

Sure, people use it, but the vast majority of Xbox gamers hate the advertising-laden clustermug the dashboard has become. Guess who buys $600 consoles at launch?

I'm pretty sure there's no data to back up that assertion. MSFT takes the dashboard UX very seriously and it is very data driven. If you see content there, it is because people want to see it and use it.

I'm also not sure the Xbox One is a console as much as it is a mix of Apple TV/gaming console/bluray player.

I don't like seeing advertisements on my game console. Advertisements annoy me more than most people.

But I only see them for the (literally) two seconds it takes to launch the game.

some vocal gamers hate them, the overwhelming number of gamers who don't moan on kotaku or neogaf probably don't care at all.

Indeed- I have drifted to 80% video 20% gaming. And the ability to watch live TV from within the console is a big win for my family. On my newer Samsung series 8 changing inputs is needlessly time consuming.

But Hulu/Netflix sales don't drive Xbox sales. I can just as easily watch them from a PS3 (or a Roku box).

but why would I pay for XBOX live on top of my Netflix/Hulu subscription fees when I can use those services for free on PS3/4 or WiiU?

because the xbox one will let you switch between your tv and game (using your voice) without you having to fiddle with your tv remotes

Also visual studio (and windows itself) are very thoroughly dogfooded. Which cannot be told for some of the other products. X360 RROD should have been impossible to miss.

They also have a bad track record of supporting other companies technologies which, at least for me, makes convergence impossible. If they don't support AirPlay and can't play content from an iTunes library, I'll still need an Apple TV.

Apple is the culprit in this case. DLNA is the airplay standard for Everything Else(tm)

I've had DLNA devices for years and dealt with constant failures in various ways, AirPlay just works and changed the way I used my AV setup completely. Only a personal experience but I have heard plenty of complaining from friends as well.

Synology didn't seem to have much trouble adding AirPlay server support to their NAS devices and XBMC has support as a render target so I really don't see a reason MS wouldn't/couldn't support it other than NIH syndrome.

I have had a similar experience with the Hulu and Netflix apps. The killer feature for me (that would let me get rid of the small pc I have connected to my HDTV) would be a good web browsing experience. I haven't seen today's demo yet so I can't speak to that, but I can say that trying to use the xbox 360 Internet Explorer app with a game controller didn't cut it for me.

The most interesting thing I noticed is the change from the RGB + IR depth camera setup found in Kinect 1 to a single 1080p 30fps RGB camera using time-of-flight for depth imaging.

Microsoft made some really cool advancements in body tracking and recognition with the original Kinect, and it seems they are still pushing the boundaries of 3D imaging with cheap hardware.

> "Microsoft also has new Kinect to share, and it includes a 1080p wide-angle camera that's designed to read your heartbeat while you exercise."

Wha? Through infrared? Or surface palpitations of your blood vessels?

(Via Verge's coverage: http://www.theverge.com/2013/5/21/4350918/xbox-one-microsoft...)

Maybe they're applying some clever algorithm like this one here:

http://people.csail.mit.edu/mrub/vidmag/

"You are having a heart attack. Call 911."

If only it called for me... maybe I can look forward to that in the next generation of consoles.

As long as it has Songsmith I'm in for at least one.

Songsmith video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8kxqMpGAL3I

And this is not a troll comment (downvotes already happening)...we need more software that lets people play and have fun outside of a "game" environment.

The commercial for Songsmith was one of the worst things I'd ever seen: http://youtu.be/3oGFogwcx-E

I really wish your comment hadn't reminded me of it :)

No word on backwards compatibility or used games yet?

Edit: No backwards compatibility[1].

Edit: Microsoft seems unsure about used games[1]: "We are designing Xbox One to enable customers to trade in and resell games. We’ll have more details to share later."

Enable?

[1]: http://news.xbox.com/2013/05/qa

Xbox One will not be backwards compatible with Xbox 360 games.

http://www.theverge.com/2013/5/21/4350662/new-xbox-has-no-ba...

Seeing your question, my immediate thought was "that's an odd question, of course it has backwards compatibility". Turns out that it actually doesn't.

http://www.theverge.com/2013/5/21/4350662/new-xbox-has-no-ba...

That's incredible.

Not according to the article you linked:

> Technologically speaking, it's not wholly a surprise that backwards compatibility is off the table. Today, the company confirmed months of rumors that the new Xbox would use an x86 CPU. Games designed for the Xbox 360's Xenon processor simply won't run natively on the new hardware, since the Xenon used a PowerPC architecture instead.

The Original Xbox and Xbox 360 used different processors as well.

IIRC, Microsoft allowed/encouraged publishers to re-compile, and release a patch via XBL which let people play the original games on the new system.

I think Xbox compatibility was achieved using an emulator; Wikipedia seems to suggest this is the case [1].

It seems like this would be an ideal opportunity for the QuickTransit [2] stuff Apple used in Rosetta to see some more use, assuming IBM would be willing to license it (and MS sees it as a worthwhile endeavour).

[1] : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Xbox_games_compatible_w... [2] : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QuickTransit

It was known that it would have a different processor architecture, however historically backwards compatibility was a given if you had any entrenchment worth preserving. Usually it is achieved in whatever way is necessary: a secondary modern-process, lower-power PowerPC coprocessor chip for older games, or a real-time binary rewriting system, etc.

I am surprised that Microsoft would throw the lead their 360 has amassed.

I don't want to juggle multiple systems in the entertainment setup. If I switch to either a PS4 or a Xbox One, either leaves me out in the cold with my old "investment". So any advantage the One had in that regard is gone. It isn't a huge deal at all, but is factored in or not.

As a Playstation guy (not really until PS2, but still having never purchased an XBox), it seems like a matter of course. Sony struggled with backwards compatibility, and my 60GB PS3 has lived to be a venerable old bastion of BC... but even in that ecosystem it's gone, with the PS4 being entirely non-old-people-friendly.

At some point I stepped back and questioned where this expectation came from, and I have to guess it's based on those of us who started as PC gamers and then went to consoles: Who else would expect something from one system to magically work on another? As more and more people grow up without this preconception, I'd imagine fewer and fewer will balk at a lack of backwards compatibility.

"I have to guess it's based on those of us who started as PC gamers and then went to consoles"

Seems to be a lot of marketing hoping my kid will stop watching youtube and playing minecraft on his android tablet and move to their console. This might be a problem as people are not so cool with rebuying everything if you upgrade from one iphone to the next or one android phone/tablet to the next.

The problem with the xbox one is next (whatever) GOOG and APPL release the next generation of tablets with a HDMI out. Now what? Pay 99 cents at play.google.com or $70 for a xbox game? Pay $200 oh wait you already own a nexus 7 of course so its actually $0, or pay $400 for a new xbox?

HDMI out on a tablet would be a regression when AirPlay gives you HD video without wires.

On Ars and The Verge I see no backwards compatibility and a "fee" to play used games (sounds like you basically have to buy the game again).

In my opinion the console seems designed to be sold by Comcast and other cable operators. Both the way it looks and the language in the presentation suggest that the Xbox is "entertainment first". I wouldn't be surprised if Microsoft announces a partnership with cable companies where customers can purchase an Xbox One in lieu of a traditional DVR.

This is already available from some companies that use Mediaroom for their guide (mainly IPTV companies). In Canada, you can use an Xbox 360 instead of a cable box with Telus.

And that's about right. The problem with all the failed "convergent" entertainment platforms out there (seriously, the market is littered with their carcasses at this point) isn't technical, it's delivery.

Some consumers want games, and they're willing to buy a console to get them. Some consumers want laptops, or tablets, etc... And these markets self-select for those willing and able to do the installation.

But everyone wants TV. And they want it to just work, and be hand-delivered to their home and installed by a professional who then hands them a remote and walks out. Until "convergent" platforms get to this level of integration (e.g. being installed by Comcast per above), they aren't going to out-compete the cable providers.

And the corrolary is that until the convergent platforms get to this level of integration, they'll always be, at best, the quirky, weird cousins of "real" TV. They'll never quite work right, and will always be chasing features or jumping over annoying compatibility hurdles.

That's a lesson that tech people don't seem to get, because we're happy to hook up an extra box to our TV, or buy a netflix subscription, or download a torrent. But that's not what the market wants. The market wants to pay $100/month to Comcast to not worry about that stuff.

BS. The market wants to pay someone for just the content they want.

Comcast wants the market to pay $100 a month and deliver hot garbage.

The market has lots of choices right now. Yet the market is paying $100 for that hot garbage.

Clearly you don't like the situation (neither do I), but hurling profanities at anonymous strangers on the internet won't change that fact. Neither will yet another failed media box.

Yes, the market is paying $100 for that hot garbage while cable subscriptions fall off for the first time in history. That is what is happening. It's not just customers finally having options for content service starting to cut the cord.

I agree. To add, Comcast really wants to get $200/month from its customers. A premium package bundled with the Xbox One might be the solution. Furthermore, Microsoft could push the console and attached Comcast subscription through its stores. This model has been proven in the telecom industry, it's only a matter of time until someone figures out how to apply those lessons to cable.

Sold my xbox last year, installed windows 7 on bootcamp, got steam, got 50 games at <$5 each and a $20 xbox controller. No more console restrictions for me ever again. Recommended.

I've been thinking about that path for a while. If I get back into gaming, I'm definitely planning on ditching the console.

>No more console restrictions for me ever again.

But that doesn't solve the issue with exclusiveness of games.

Given that the new processor is x86 I suspect that issue will solve itself.

I kid, of course. Nobody pirates games these days and I'm sure their latest DRM scheme will turn out to be the one that stops what few pirates are left in their tracks. ahem

Not really relevant.

I've been doing the same thing for about 2 years, couldn't be happier.

However, try getting live HD sports on it without a cable subscription. If Microsoft's NFL deal can deliver that (which I think is way too good to be true), it might be worth adding to the home theatre stack alongside the HTPC. I'd love to see Windows 8 on an HTPC touted as an Xbox One+, however.

I can't wait to pay $399 to watch TV on my TV.

But now various side panes will keep popping up to distract and/or annoy you while you're watching TV.

xxxAssMaster69 just completed another level of Roid Rage '13. Would you like to join him?

It's almost worth it just to get rid of Verizon's guide...

Dish? DirectTV? Heck, even most cable companies charge for a settop these days. Doesn't seem to impact their business models much.

I don't want "All-in-One". I want a GAMING console. Ugh.

... Then don't buy it? Nobody's putting a gun to your head and forcing you to buy it. Look at your options when everything comes out and then choose whatever meets your needs.

I think the GP is expressing concern that the unification strategy may detract from the set of options he would otherwise have were it a dedicated gaming system.

And I get that, but at the same time, he isn't forced to buy the console. If the PS4 proves to be more "gaming console-ish" then the Xbox One, then he can get that instead. Or a Gaming PC.

You seem to be of the view that competitive forces in a perfect market remove the justifications of consumers to complain about their available choices. Since there are only three console makers and studios hold monopoly rights on their IP, it's not anything like a perfectly efficient market.

The console exists to play the games. Not every game is available on every console and the technology of the console also drives features and quality in the games.

So if you want to play a game that requires a certain console, yes, you are forced to buy that console. Likewise, if you want to play a game with your friends on a certain gaming network (PSN, XBL, Steam, etc) you are also forced to buy a certain console.

You're not forced to do anything. It's still your choice in the end whether you want to purchase a console or not. You have to weigh the pros and cons of each offering, and then decide if the positives outweigh the negatives.

And a console used to exist to play games. Clearly, the market is moving away from this. Just because that's what it used to do doesn't mean that what it's moving towards doing. Technology is ever-changing and hanging on to outdated beliefs will only result in disappointment.

> You're not forced to do anything. It's still your choice in the end whether you want to purchase a console or not.

In my family's neighborhood, if you are a certain age and want to play with the other boys for many hours out of the day, you must have an Xbox Live, Minecraft, and Modern Warfare 3. In an odd way it does, in fact, involve them putting guns to each others' heads.

The OP said "I want a GAMING console."

> a console used to exist to play games. Clearly, the market is moving away from this.

And the OP gets to express his disappointment in the direction of the market. It doesn't make him wrong.

But the OP isn't complaining about the market. He's complaining about the Xbox One not being a gaming-focused device. And that's not fair if the entire market is moving away from gaming-only devices.

Well this an interesting discussion: is "the entire market moving away from gaming-only devices"?

Personally, I think it's a mistake to simplify the market like that.

Yes, our family uses our Xbox 360 to watch many hours of Netflix. But that's just because it happens to be plugged in to the shared TV. The Playstation or any number of other devices in our house (even weensy little tablet CPUs) can also play Netflix just fine. If we played PS3 games more, we'd go back to watching Netflix and DVDs there.

It's not because we "want our Xbox to be a more general entertainment device", it's simply a technically incidental task that's barely worth plugging in an additional device for.

Many consoles can play DVDs as well as games, but should DVD playback drive the evolution of consoles?

You're getting a gaming console, with the addition of a host of other features that ensure the console platform can reach market stability through sales and continue to provide content - including the games you want to play - over the multi-year span that a major investment in hardware requires of a company.

On the other hand - what's preventing you from GAMING on your PC?

>On the other hand - what's preventing you from GAMING on your PC?

Exclusives.

I'd posit that the very existence of exclusives is one of the things that defines this as a gaming console through and through, if no longer first and foremost.

I may be the minority, but it's nice that all the exclusives I'm waiting for are PC exclusives.

What, uh, is missing from the One that you would expect out of a gaming console?

I used to think like that but now I am finding myself increasingly relying on Xbox as an entertainment system and that despite having built a dedicated XBMC pc. Maybe its the general availability of Apps (Amazon Video, Xfinity, Netflix) or just pure laziness to switch between two systems.

Do you still have to pay for xbox live to watch netflix which you're already paying for?

Yes.

Then I'll pass. I can't get over that psychological barrier of paying to use something I'm already paying for :-(

This has always driven me nuts. It makes Microsoft seem so money hungry to charge me to access a service I already pay for, through an internet connection I already pay for with a device I already paid for.

"The xbox will be the next water cooler" That lady has no idea how correct she is. It seems that they focused on entertainment also they got more suits to present a product, using every buzz word in the dictionary. I really enjoyed how they were distancing them selves from Microsoft the whole time, I only recalled they said Microsoft at most 5 times. "Team xbox" "Here at xbox"

>I really enjoyed how they were distancing them selves from Microsoft the whole time

I don't think there was any need to be alienated from the brand Microsoft (No recent Microsoft PR blunders I could recall). Its just that Xbox has become a brand of its own. The addition of Microsoft is now unnecessary. You can also notice this very easily among techies, there are a lot who hate Microsoft but love their Xbox.

This is a bit off topic but....

I want one console on my TV, a console that lets me listen to the music source of my choice whether its Pandora, Spotify, Google Play, or all the other stuff

I want a console that plays nice with my cable tv provider... hell I would love to replace Charter's HD Box with a console and get DVR, TV listings, and On Demand

I want a console that I can play games... including all the major options.

I don't want to be annoyed with advertisments or notifications I dont need.

Most of all I want the console to be able to seperate my needs from my girlfriends. I could care less about Grey's Anatomy and she could care less about Star Trek.

I want to be able to watch Amazon Video on demand, Netflix, and Hulu from my one console, and search all these options plus my cable TV lisitings from one console.

I would also like it to block any content from Robert Scoble.

None of these things will ever happen though because companies are getting more and more in the habbit of setting up walls between services instead of focusing on user friendlines. I dont want 4 boxes hooked to my 3 HDMI ports. I want one box.

The 3 OS thing is very interesting. I can't wait for all the jokes saying how one Microsoft OS barley works yet alone 3 at the same time.

I can wait; this hasn't really been a thing for over a decade. It is usually 3rd-party driver related, and none of the OSes are immune.

Some funny/snarky tweets: http://storify.com/pattheflip/people-on-twitter-make-fun-of-...

My favorite: "Don Mattrick: 'We are proud to announce a Kickstarter for the next Xbox today... there are a LOT of great rewards for backers.'"

Ha! The site isn't loading. So much for Azure. Gee, I hope this thing doesn't, like, you know, require a 24/7 net connection. http://i.imgur.com/9ycXs5y.png

Honestly, if this can run Steam's Big Picture (in Windows, I guess), I'm sold.

Watching Dota 2 using the in-game client on a TV would be great.

I suspect that the guys at Valve working on the steambox were pretty happy with what they saw during the reveal event.

While steam in the lounge room will be able to deliver content other than games, I'm sure that the main focus of the initial push will be on the games. Seeing MS "diversify" their focus is surely good in Valve's view.

I think it's a product with HUGE potential as it would replace my separate Gaming-Console/AppleTV/Browser devices; also looking forward to gesture interactivity done right (ugh, Samsung's Smart TVs are terrible)..

Specifically, a picture of it (with no other information)

There's some more on Gizmodo:

http://gizmodo.com/the-new-xbox-everything-you-need-to-know-...

Won't this make discussion of the first Xbox horribly confusing and make the new product and original product show up together in search terms?

The old Xbox is over a decade old. BTW, were you around when Apple gave the name for its new iPad?

They named it "the new iPad", changing its designation to just the platform/form factor. From now on, all new iPads will be "iPad". Microsoft could have done the same thing by just naming it the "Xbox".

But yeah it doesn't really matter. The original XBox is the "Batman Begins" of the XBox trilogy. The most rabid fans don't even know it exists.

Sort of like explaining how the Multitap for PS2 works on the PS1, PSOne, and PS2, but not the PS2 (PSTwo). If you have the PS2, you need the Multitap for the PS2, because it's not compatible with the Multitap for the PS2.

I'm not seeing the details, but at least it looks better than the old one I suppose.

"This page cannot be found"...

thanks but no thanks. my teevee comes with android play.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com