Xbox, A New Generation Revealed (livesteam) | Hacker News Reader

Xbox, A New Generation Revealed (livesteam)

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60 pointsmikeevans88 comments

Microsoft's communications are always so unnatural. Why does Microsoft maintain this corporate communication style? Every announcement event is just so uncomfortable.

These are clearly executives on stage whose asset is leadership, but they insist on injecting unnatural banter & distracting idioms. What corporate communications person hears a marketing manager talking about "photons" w/r/t kinect and doesn't cringe?

Is it just momentum within a communications team? Is it that they can't abandon this style because it's so deeply embedded in their communications team's culture? Or does this style actually work on some market segment?

The audience for this is probably stock analysts.

"When you are exercising it can read your heartrate."

Why would you present a device that clearly looks like HAL 9000, integrates a very skynet-esque xbox live and choose to say it can read your heartbeat?

Wouldn't it be better to give the context as a choice? It comes across as telescreen that is taking your biometrics without permission. Why did they choose to take the creepy angle? What is wrong with these people?

They chose this angle because the number of people watching who care about the ethics of biometric data capture are basically a rounding error on a marketing spreadsheet.

Most annoying to me, is we're 30 minutes into the reveal, and they've still not discussed games. Literally, we've had about 7 seconds of a game playing in the background. As far as I people can tell, this would (so far) seem to be a voice controlled cable box.

Oh, and it looks like a shiny VCR. Bleh.

Edit: Ah, at 31 minutes, we have a games developer. Pity it's EA, but c'est la vie.

I think that's the point. They're trying to capture a market far larger than people who care about the next Halo, because those people are going to buy this anyway.

And these are precisely the people who won't be watching the reveal of a new console.

True but the press/blogs will summarize this and a ton of people will have heard about it by the end of the day. They really want to be the only box in your living room, not just something you boot up when you want to play Halo, so they're emphasizing things other than the games at this point.

But they're the people who will be reading the vapid-to-us articles written by those who have no understanding of, or context for, gaming and will simply try to encapsulate what they see on that stage.

If Microsoft gave a 'core gamer only' conference as its reveal, the (e.g.) CNN article the next day would read very differently. And the mother with two children and a kinect would decide, in a paragraph or maybe two, that this next one is not really 'for' her.

And that may well be what core gamers want the message to be. But it is desperately not what Microsoft wants the message to be.

Despite them being live streamed, the announcements aren't for us. They're for the press to write articles that these people will read.

Thanks, I got a lot of value from that middlebrow dismissal.

As someone who is a dedicated gamer, I think his comment is 100% valid. The last PlayStation I owned was the PS2, after that the Xbox and the Xbox 360 were my primary consoles, mostly because Xbox Live was such a breath of fresh air for multiplayer console gaming.

I'm 99.9% sure I'm buying a PS4 this fall because of the extreme de-emphasis on gaming for the next Xbox, while Sony is making all the right moves in supporting indie games, etc.

Just as I got a tonne of information from yours. My point is that this is, primarily a games console. They're up against Sony, who are focusing entirely on games, and Nintendo, who are focusing entirely on games. They've shown, essentially, 3 games, and a giant pile of fluff. I can already watch TV on my TV. I have never desired to go "Quick, watch TV! Damn, back to the game! No, wait, TV! Hold on, TV guide!". That's a gimmick, not a feature worthy of nearly a minute of stage time. It looks, in honesty, like a rushed announcement for something that's years off ready, not launching in 6 months.

My "highbrow" comment then, is that this is a big mistake. They had the advantage of being the last next-gen console reveal - they can answer every point of Sony and Nintendo, plus add their own spin. And they basically gave us less information than was already public in the gaming press, probably pissed off a large proportion of the hardcore gaming public, are unlikely to have attracted the non-gaming groups, and picked a rather daft name. It was an open goal, and this went so far wide, I think they'd have been better not saying anything until they had something to say.

You still think this is still primarily a game console?

Microsoft is putting all its chips down on the battle for your living room, which is a major front. The fight to be the all-in-one device people buy that replaces their cable box, game console, and media server (and the data being positioned as the provider of that device brings with it) is not a small one.

Self-identified "gamers" like yourself, who will probably turn out to be the minority purchasing audience for this generation of consoles-cum-entertainment boxes, already have a venue for game porn - it's called E3 - and Microsoft knows it's coming up in a few weeks.

Does the average consumer really want an expensive, gigantic box with huge blower fans to watch Netflix and Hulu - when an Apple TV, Roku, or any coffee grinder with an HDMI port does the job?

Yes, when they can take the place Apple TV and a Roku and play games on them. Plus, the interface is probably simpler for a lot of people. It is far easier to get to Netflix on the Wii than on the Apple TV, especially for my family members that are using it the first time. I assume this is similar.

The average consumer? Of course. They want as few fiddly bits as possible. They want their stuff to just work.

Then they want an Apple TV or a Roku. My wife's grandma can and does use an Apple TV to watch Netflix. There's no way in hell she could ever navigate the UI disaster that is the XBox 360.

But everyone can speak, right? "Xbox, watch Netflix" --> instantly looking at Netflix. No need for multiple or big universal remotes, no switching inputs, etc.

I love my Roku, and I have no plans to get an Xbox 360 as I'm sure many of the features will require an XBL subscription. But the vision? I'm there with the vision.

So far these "talk to your TV" features haven't worked out, and is it really worth the (guessing) $300 premium over a $99 Apple TV? No doubt if there's a good way to do voice control on a TV, Apple's going to figure it out before Microsoft does.

I agree at the moment. I do have Kinect and had high hopes for the voice commands, but as yet they just take too long to register. However, if it's as good as today's demo implied then we'll be pretty close to, if not at, the level that makes it the simplest (not cheapest) option.

> No doubt if there's a good way to do voice control on a TV, Apple's going to figure it out before Microsoft does.

I don't have the same blind faith. Apple hasn't put themselves far enough in the living room for me to wait for them. Sure, they got Apple TV, but that seems like barely a side project for them. It's not as good as the cheaper and more versatile Roku, and it's not as bold in thinking as the Xbox One (or even the Xbox 360).

I think you have to abandon the premise that the XBox One is primarily a games console. That, and a whole host of other assumptions like watching "TV" on your television; who watches television anymore? Nobody I know even has cable.

I think they're saving most of the game related content for E3, which is soon(ish).

Do you get pissed at iPhone reveals when they don't talk about making phone calls at all? Of course the gaming console can play games and the graphics will be better as well. The selling point is that it's not just another game console. It's a powerful PC in your living room, it'd be a waste if all it was doing was playing games.

I think you missed the point. Its no about whether it can play games or no- its about if there are any innovations in the feature set than before.

If iPhone reveals had innovations in the way we make phone calls- then yes that would be very interesting to watch. In fact when Apple released iOS6, they did talk about this, ie. regarding how you can choose actions when receiving a call.

Did they discuss how you get TV onto the XBOX? Are they offering a service to get TV via your internet connection? I didn't see a coax port on the back of it...Or is this just an extension of windows media center and you need a PC in the background to act as the tuner?

Also wondering about this, I can't imagine this has a cable card slot. I know that there are IP tv apps for xbox already from fios, comcast and I think some others but to my the channel selection is limited, If it's just more of that it will be ok for some but I'm pretty sure that some of the bigger channels (ESPN?) are not available through the current apps.

There is an HDMI input to connect your existing cable/satellite receiver.

See bullet point #6: http://d35lb3dl296zwu.cloudfront.net/uploads/photo/image/114...

Hmm, that could be it but they were showing a guide within the Xbox One interface if I am not mistaken. I guess they could be showing their own guide and then just sending a message to the cable box telling it what channel to switch to. Definitely interested in hearing more about how they see this working.

Xbox One?

That's a rather confusing name since it's the third Xbox.

That didn't stop Apple from naming the newest iPhone the "iPhone 5", despite being the sixth.

Or HTC from naming their newest flagship phone the "HTC One".

3 wrongs don't make a right?

Or Sony calling PSOne a modified/updated version of the first Playstation.

That actually was the same thing as a PS1 and they stuck to that convention. The PS2 slim's official name is the PSTwo.

Actually, no, they abandoned that convention. The PS2 slim's official name is the PS2. It just has a different part number.

That's because the numbering only gets bumped for sufficiently "major" upgrades, typically marked by a redesign. There was the original iPhone, then there was the 3G (which introduced 3G and a new design) and its minor upgrade the 3Gs, then the 4 (which introduced the retina display and a new design) and its upgrade the 4S, then the 5 (which introduced the new aspect ratio).

Or nintendo using Wii U for the Wii successor

Yeah, man. Why did this stupid developer call her newest release "Program 2"?! It’s her third release, after all, she already released Program 1.0 and Program 1.1.

To want to call the iPhone 5 iPhone 6 is so insane, I cannot fathom how anyone could come up with this crazy idea.

It would be more like calling it Program 1 after releasing Program and Program Upgrade.

My thoughts as well. It means they'll have to rethink their naming schema yet again when they come out with the next console, because Xbox Two as the fourth Xbox just wouldn't fly.

Xbox 3, 4, 8, Infinity. Nope...they had to choose "One". Dumb, dumb, dumb.

They should have called it Xbox Zero.

Agreed, particularly because people often refer to the first Xbox as "Xbox 1" to differentiate from "Xbox 360".

Could have been worse. It could have been Windows Xbox 8.

I think the thought around One is that it is unifying a bunch of devices: DVD, Internet streaming device, games into one platform. I like it, its better than 720 or 1080 or Windows XBox or XBox 360 Premium or something so bad I can't even imagine it.

If their strategy is to unify the game console + internet streaming box + media player in one unit, this sounds like a perfectly sane marketing plan.

"You can watch TV"

I can already watch TV.

And I don't want to be social while I watch TV, or buy tickets for a sequel while I watch a movie.

So far I haven't heard anything that has wowed me.

"Practically silent" means my wife will practically force me to buy one, as she (rightfully) complains about the jet engine turbines the launch day 360 uses for fans.

I've been holding off buying a dedicated Blu-ray player, so that has some value. Don't care about Kinect, not enough room in the TV room. Don't care about being "connected" as I have enough Skype-enabled, etc. devices around the house.

The hard questions are how Microsoft's ad service, er, Xbox Live will improve my experience. Right now I'm of the opinion that the XL experience has really gone down hill with poor UI and loaded with ads. How is the gaming experience? Is it really going to require "always on"? Do I have to physically hold up my controller to "raise a shield"? I just want to move my thumbs. Am I going to be nickeled-and-dimed with micro payments/DLC?

My point is, this is the first time I'll make an actual decision about buying a new Xbox. Halo made the first one a no-brainer for me. I bought the 2nd because I still worked at MSFT, and I was a company man. This time there is the real possibility that I won't buy an Xbox One. Give recent trends, they better make sure the experience doesn't suck. But I see EA is on the stage right now, so I'm not optimistic.

Damn right! You must have the 1st gen 360 like me....ahhh my little space heater that's louder than my crossfire gpus.

The fan: http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2013/05/xbox-one-development-...

Bigger typically means quieter.

Is it just me or were the number of buzzword adjectives in this event absolutely ridiculous?

Unifying the TV Watching experience can be very awesome. Should be interesting to see what the actual cable companies think and how they integrate in the end.

I have to say I'm pretty disappointed in HN right now. I came to this thread hoping to see some good discussion but instead there's just a bunch of crap. I see a lot of complaining and comments at a very superficial level. Can we talk about the competition and their different strategies? Can we talk about any of the new things presented and whether or not they are interesting or valuable, and why? Can we talk about the technology? Can we talk about how Sony seems to have gone out of their way to court indie developers but MS didn't even mention them here?

No one is stopping you from writing those posts, you know.

So cringe-worthy when when an exec is presenting and obviously pauses because someone told him to expect applause and the room is silent.

Can somebody explain why HN's ranking algorithm has already pushed this submission to the second page? This seems inconsistent with its points, age and level of discussion relative to the articles ranked above. (I'm just asking out of curiosity and have no personal interest in having this post ranked higher or lower.)

Some moderator probably downvoted it.

I've noticed when the discussion is of low quality stories tend to fall faster. So yeah, you're probably right.

I'd like it better if this kind of moderation would be more transparent.

No one can down-vote posts, but posts that require attention (moderator related?) can be flagged to indicate that the link is to something that is outright bad (spam, inflamatory content, false information etc) and if it gets flagged by a lot of people it falls down the front page.

There's probably something else I don't know about the ranking algorithm though.

Do users who abuse the flagging feature get penalized?

I don't think so, not for just flagging but there does seem to be a way HN can find this type of behaviour and ignore the actions of users that abuse the voting system. read this for some more info http://www.jacquesmattheij.com/The+Unofficial+HN+FAQ

Thanks for the link.

I lost my ability to flag. I have no idea why, I assume I flagged one too many posts that ended up as popular. Just as well. One less distraction for me.

There's an alternative stream at GT: http://www.gametrailers.com/netstorage/xboxcountdown/live.ht...

The official one appears to have some bandwidth issues for me.

Thanks for this. I was having issues with the one OP linked to.

Why couldn't they stream it on YouTube? This one keeps buffering every 5 seconds.

I think Bart Simpson said it best: "Boooring."

Clearly this event was not geared towards people who use consoles mainly for games.

Did anyone manage to get a working video player on Linux? I messed around with trying to get it to play while listening to it(extremely choppy) on a windows VM. I actually went so far as to open up their video player since I couldn't find any URLs, and Fiddler wasn't helping, but then it was over.

I'm pretty impressed with the device but I was expecting a LOT more when they started talking about sports. Especially considering that live sports is one of the last bastions of television. Fantasy football and "taunting friends on Skype" is not what I consider an ultimate experience.

I'd really like to hear more about what this NFL partnership entails, also. The NFL is the one thing holding me to my cable television subscription.

If they can really wrangle all of the other sources to come through and be controllable by the xbox, that would be very cool. Maybe my parents will be able to work our tv without us having to write detailed instructions.

Three operating systems in one? So that's what Dave Cutler was working on?

Xbox One has 3 pieces

If you hire some people (or invite your employees) to hysterically cheer at every little announcement, at least make it a little less obvious.

Durango sounded better than freaking xbox one! Come on Microsoft!

who can i throw my money at to get this

Microsoft.

From the web:

"8 gigs of RAM, USB 3.0, Wi-Fi Direct, a Blu-Ray disc drive, 64-bit architecture and "practically silent operation." Super fast switching of TV inputs between TV, Gaming, Skype,IE etc. Runs the Windows NT kernel. Kinect 2.0 also gets a substantial upgrade. Whitten promised the integrated camera will have a wider field of view, and the sensor will be able to detect more joints, to include rotation of wrists and shoulders. "When you are exercising it can read your heartrate."

It's funny that they are advertising "64bit" as a feature. The Nintendo 64 took that flag in 1999.

They're not. http://d35lb3dl296zwu.cloudfront.net/uploads/photo/image/114...

> The Nintendo 64 took that flag in 1999

1996

"read your heartrate" reminded me of https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ONZcjs1Pjmk (video to MIT paper submitted to SIGGRAPH about emphasizing video features, blood flow among them)

There's an app for that: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4062555

Did they say anything about its power consumption? Because in addition to reduced noise, this would need to have a low-power mode in order to be a successful "always on" device.

No wattage or anything yet, but power usage is a concern. Engadget just posted an article about the hardware, which includes this quote:

The console runs in multiple power states, which means it runs in a low-wattage setting when not in use. (Microsoft wouldn't give us specifics other than to say, "The system is designed for an SoC up to about 100W, but will vary on the scenario.")

http://www.engadget.com/2013/05/21/building-xbox-one-an-insi...

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