Finnish MeeGo Startup Jolla Reveals First Phone With Customisable Shells | Hacker News Reader

Finnish MeeGo Startup Jolla Reveals First Phone With Customisable Shells

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110 pointsTsiolkovsky56 comments

I was kind of hoping the cover would slide to reveal a QWERTY keyboard, it was one of the main reasons I got the N900 which I use to this day. Its getting pretty dated so it will probably be either Jolla or a FFOS phone, which is looking pretty good too.

In fact, if there is anything low-endish on FFOS with a QWERTY ill probably just get that.

Edit: I should probably say I'm also using a low-end Samsung with Android, and its a pretty shitty experience, although only half of that is due to Android OS (signing me out in weird moments, things unremovable from notifications, poor task management etc), granted Im probably stuck on some old version.

I've used firefox-os (the developer release phone) & I honestly don't see any significant improvement over ios or android.

It mostly felt like a much slower version of android tbh.

I would wager that your shitty experience is due to under-powered phone with old 2.x os. A high end device with up do date 4.x would be much more pleasurable to use.

I have a Samsung GT-S5830i. I don't have a lot of additional apps installed - maybe two games and a Twitter profile manager. It, generally, feels sluggish when switching between applications, such as messaging to web browsing.

My new Geeksphone Keon with FirefoxOS feels much more responsive than the Samsung with Android. And the Firefox browser works much better on the Keon!

Unfortunately, a couple of functionality things with the Keon prevent me from migrating across - as far as I can see contacts can only be imported from Facebook or a SIM card. Also email only supports some webmail options (e.g. Gmail) and IMAP, no POP3 or Exchange server support. I'm not complaining though, as I know it's a developer release. I'm just hopeful someone with better skills than me will enhance the relevant applications.

With respect to this Jolla article, I'm unimpressed the phone is priced so high. My initially gut feel when I saw the article was "damn, I just got this FirefoxOS phone." After reading that the price point for Jolla is EUR399, I'm pretty happy with my EUR125 Keon purchase.

> as far as I can see contacts can only be imported from Facebook or a SIM card

Did you update FxOS after you bought the phone? There is a new "Importer" app which sync'ed contacts from Google/Gmail. Works well.

Thanks, and I haven't looked at contacts again since the update. I appreciate you pointing this out to me. I will have another look at contacts this evening.

You are comparing a phone with 256MB RAM (The samsung) to a phone with 512MB RAM (the Geeksphone). It is unsuprising the Keon is faster and snappier!

I have a Samsung Android-phone of the same era. Very slow with the stock rom, but quite good to use with a custom one (and profits a lot from using opera mini). The androidcentral-community around your phone seems quite active, if you aren't already using a custom rom, have a look: http://forum.xda-developers.com/forumdisplay.php?f=1730

Though the Keon propbably is the better choice anyway.

Try installing CyanogenMod 7.2. I have the same phone and it did MAGIC with mine.

I agree with your wager, although given the choice I would rather have a physical keyboard than a polished OS. But maybe that's just me.

I will be getting firefox-os just out of principle. I have a hard time trusting Apple or Google with my data. A (relatively) independent foundation just gives me a little bit more peace-of-mind that they are not trying to track, mine and predict the latest byte out of my phone.

Won't most FFOS apps talk by definition to a server? I wonder how "local" the native apps will be or whether developers will bother with working in offline mode even when connected to the internet.

Isn't Google behind Mozilla as well?

Mozilla receive ad revenue from Google. AFAIK Google has no control over Mozilla except obviously enabling Google to preemptively place a cookie on users' machines using the default, Googley homepage. Google integration, by definition, defies Mozilla's mission, but it's not because Google controls them. I'm okay with the integration knowing that I can fix it, though I wish there were a start-up option for novices, though.

Thanks for the answer.

No they are not.

On similar hardware, Firefox OS is not slower than Android, and rather a bit faster. Remember that developer phones are relatively low end ones (1GHz single core cpu, 512M of ram)

I just restored my nightly N900 rsync backup to my spare because the USB port on my original 2010 vintage won't reliably charge anymore; the replacement micro USB ports are on order. That's how much I love the N900. Of course, now I have even more reason to play with different software on the broken one (I have an external charger for the batteries).

All that being said, I've been looking for a replacement phone with decent QWERTY for a long time (I hate that when you select "QWERTY" as a feature, some people think that it's okay to include "on screen keyboard (QWERTY)" in that category), but the selection is limited. It's a deal breaker for me, though, as I really don't want to give up org-mode in Emacs. I've heard of the Android org-mode app, and emacs for Android; either of those might be okay, but I really am dreading giving up a "real" Linux for something like Android, especially when I can get the source to 90+% of the software I run now, but I'm pretty sure that won't be the case on Android.

And don't even talk to me about giving up the FM transmitter that only the N900 seems to have. Another piece of hardware I really don't want to have to replace is my 4Runner (which currently lacks bluetooth stereo input).

I'm hopeful for the future though; more and more it seems like options to make your own hardware are becoming available, and the fact that there are multiple open source options for mobile is also a very good sign.

>Jolla’s handset will cost €399 ($513) and is slated to ship at the end of the year.

I find Sailfish an interesting product due to its technological heritage but that is rather a lot. I wonder what their marketing strategy is for this device.

From a developer's perspective you can't help but compare that price to how much it would cost to get a Firefox OS development unit. FxOS also promises you access to a larger, if less affluent, audience. On the other hand, a higher price might prevent the kind of shortages we are currently seeing with Geeksphone Keon and Peak.

Yup, like one of the comments mentioned: a Chinese's salary is 600€/month so spending 400€ is exorbitant. Salaries in India and some eastern European countries are equally low. I would've bought it if it were 200 - 300€. FxOS looks promising on low-end market: my Peak is working very well so far :)

I'll wait until Q4/2013 or Q1/2014 to see if they release a cheaper model.

[edit: other EE countries -> some EE countries]

For the record, India is not in Eastern Europe and the wages and quality of life here are a HELL OF A LOT better than in India.

edit: but yeah, jolla is too expensive.

In some Eastern European countries the average salary is below 450€/month.

Which ones?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_in_Europe_by... (sort by "net $")

Well my point was that a quarter of India lives on 10€/month. But then again those people probably don't buy smartphones.

The government gives you jobs at 2EUR a day for 100 days, this is available to everyone, Your claim that a quarter of India lives on less than 10EUR a month is wrong

Its not really a claim Im just quoting wikipedia

I don't follow your logic. Let's assume the Indian government promises every citizen a EUR 2 salary for 100 days. Most people will have a working career that is much longer than that. Spreading that EUR 60 a month salary over 10,000 days (27-ish working years) is EUR 0,02 a day, a EUR 9,98 a month salary for the other 99% of their working life would bring the average close to EUR 10 a month.

Maybe Jolla could try and lure some existing Android and iOS developers by giving out free devices.

wink wink nudge

If so, then pricing their first phone higher might be a valid way to increase its perceived value among the developers who get one for free. The assumption behind it would be that if you got a "$500 device" for free you'd feel more obliged to try and actually do something with it than if were a "$200 device".

I.e.:

1. Announce a device that "will be for sale for $500" (whether or not it will be widely sold at all).

2. Give it away for free to developers.

3. The developers feel like they shouldn't waste $500 wroth of value, hence they try to develop for it.

4. Get more apps (than you would with a cheaper device).

5. Launch a cheaper device for the majority of your end users.

Is this a known strategy?

It's still quite a bit less than an iPhone or a fancy Samsung model.

As a developer I see it as a cheap smartphone. Some devices that I currently have, for comparison: Samsung Galaxy S4 - 690€, Galaxy S3 - 520€, Nexus 4 - 485€. iPhones go up to almost 1k€ for the top model.

This isn't even the same game as Firefox OS. If you expect to get a phone even similar to N9 for $50 then I don't know what to say. It is just a different market.

If you're looking to sell apps, both FF and Jolla are a bad bet I believe. If you're looking for a mobile computer like the N900 (or to a lesser extent the N9) was, then I don't think FF really qualifies...

"The device is powered by Jolla’s Sailfish OS but can also run Android apps, giving it something of a leg up."

Did you even read the article.

I got an N9 late-ish last year for €430, so €399 doesn’t appear entirely unreasonable?

This will be interesting to see.

Of all the new entrants with new mobile OSs, Jolla has the most experienced crew. They also chose Qt as an app runtime, so they do not rely on Web apps to become mature and efficient on mobile hardware.

Since it does not rely on anything heavy-weight, the Sailfish OS should scale down to budget smartphone hardware at least as well as Android.

The also have a lot of drive to prove Nokia wrong, much the same way Andy Rubin was driven to succeed after Danger failed to make headway with OEMs and carriers. There is a lot to be said for the power of smart pissed-off people.

God I wish one of these companies would release a decent candy bar qwerty. Am I really the only one??

What about Blackberry Q10, or the likely more affordable Q5?

Nokia has announced an Asha with a qwerty keypad.

nope.

I use an N900 to this day, despite having to use a terrible service provider to get support for the phone's frequencies in my area.

Hardware keyboard on a phone I can ssh from or I'm not upgrading.

I sure hope that the back-cover thingy is more than just splash of color. Well, maybe they are trying to score some nostalgia points from old 5110/3310 users :)

Is it that bad? People cover their shiny iphone with uglier cases. My nexus4 has a tacky shiny circle pattern that was deliberately put there by Google (or whoever). I honestly don't mind a simple colour rear cover.

It's not that bad, but the amount of emphasis such a mundane feature gets in the marketing seems bit worrying if there is nothing more in it.

I think the plan is that the "Other Half" can actually contain hardware that augments the capabilities of the phone.

There's some sort of NFC detection of the current cover and apparently you can hack some settings based on which cover you're currently using. See http://www.jolla.com and scroll down.

that is a painfully bad gimmick.

That depends on how much it affects the display - if snapping a cover on and off is easy, I could see myself using a blue and an orange one as a sort of hardware f.lux switch.

After reading i felt like their main selling point was the customisable shells, which indeed is a nice feature, but nothing that would make people switch in my opinion.

Is this a special video just focused on the shell or is this really what their marketing wants to display?

So the main launch present is over now. They didn't tell anything new about anything. I hope the press can get something out of the Jolla guys, I felt bit disappointed. Not about the device (pretty much impossible to be disappointed about something I know nothing about), but about the event.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zxv7iXwIgno

The specs sound ok for the price, but then it will be available by end of year... It sounds like too weaks specs for the price compared to what you will be able to get at that time.

First smartphone maybe, but not first phone. It's appropriate that a team of ex-Nokia people have recycled the idea of Xpress-On covers.

What kind of connector in the Other Half? If it can be used for a battery extension and/or qwerty, count me in!

hands-on demo of the device: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zxv7iXwIgno

Looks very good. Was the back cover added just for show to this sleek phone or it actually covers sth bulged?

It covers the removable battery. I don't like the sandwich look, it's a design trick to make the phone appear thinner. The front half by itself isn't bad, with clean lines and no silly "design elements" that don't add to usability.

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