Poll: HN desktop Linux users, what distro do you use?
0: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5730142
0: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5730142
So I switched to Ubuntu - Warty Warthog! I loved it because it was a minimal distro that was very useful and fit on a single CD. (I neither had lots of internet nor CDs available to me at the time.) Also, I never knew which options to select for a Fedora Anaconda install. So many packages - what do I want??
Then I tried Mint. It was neat, I guess, but never seemed appreciably easier than Ubuntu. I was hoping for an easier experience doing things like playing MP3s and displaying patent-protected GIF files, but I dunno, I never really got into it.
I did, however, get into the Cinnamon window manager!
Today I begrudgingly installed Ubuntu 12.04. It's more or less the only distro that anybody supports - you can get directions to install $foo (driver, software, Steam, what have you) on Ubuntu but other distros are hit or miss. And Ubuntu is more or less as updated as I care to be, a guarantee that I don't know I can get with other distros.
Mind you, I don't really like ubuntu nowadays. I'm not into Unity, I'm not into paid-results-in-system-search, and as a power-user, I was really unhappy when the switched from init scripts to upstart. But the community has widely adopted it as a 'standard' platform for their software, so, well, here I am.
I'm using Gentoo and I don't really notice this, but that's probably because my needs are fairly minimal and I take the approach of "if it's working, don't change it". Unless I happen to upgrade to something that requires a new version of a library that then breaks other things that were linking to it, setting of a chain of forced recompilation, I don't really spend much time compiling at all. (Amortized time compiling, in light of the library issue just mentioned, might still be high.)
Curious what other Gentoo users' perceptions of time spent compiling is.
Now if Ubuntu would integrate systemd I'd stop considering fedora.
In my opinion, this is Gentoo's greatest weakness. I don't really see a way around it, however, short of the Gentoo team somehow getting the resources to mirror every version of every package in portage.
When something was broken - let's say X11 wouldn't start - the first thing you'd try is "re-emerge X." 2 hours later, the display is still broken and only later do you realize you had xorg.conf misconfigured.
(I think all of the auto configuration for displays is great, by the way. But on the occasion it doesn't work, I wish I could just edit xorg.conf, but of course that doesn't even exist any more because everything is autodetected by default.)
I loved the idea of USE flags, until I realized that they were just a wrapper around ./configure options.
It was a distro that invited a lot of experimenting and tweaking.
I've been running opensuse as my main distro now for a couple years. Great kde support, very stable, gets the job done. For servers I gravitate towards CentOS.
I just spent a few minutes looking through the gentoo doc again. Makes me really excited how good the community doc was - this is how it's done! [1]
Why? Personally, I much prefer the declarative configuration over the lengthy SysV boilerplate, and there's always pre-start and such if you want to insert some shell code.
By the way, may I suggest Debian Sid/Unstable? Most of the commands and package names are the same (for obvious reasons ;), it has a rolling release (so you're always up-to-date) and it's still on SysV init scripts.
For example, I wanted to take some old hardware and set it up as a server. Easy - just change init to runlevel 3 (no display) and boom, there you are, headless linux.
If I wanted to do that in ubuntu, I still wouldn't know how, to be honest. I guess I'd have to reinstall it with ubuntu server? Do we even have single-user mode any more?
(I learned sysadmin from "the armadillo book" [1]. I feel like most of the concepts are identical, but the tools are so different now. all I want to do is run a new script on boot. why do i want upstart??)
For example, here's the info on Runlevels, including how to set Single-User mode either temporarily or permanently: http://upstart.ubuntu.com/cookbook/#runlevels
all I want to do is run a new script on boot. why do i want upstart??
Frankly, if all you wanted was that, you could just stick the script in the kernel init= parameter, no need for Upstart or SysV ;)
Both of them are daemon management applications, and frankly I don't think it makes much sense to optimize for the "running script on boot" versus sanely managing daemon startup.
That said, at least on Ubuntu the SysV infrastructure is still called (as an Upstart job), so you should still be able to stick something in /etc/rc.local.
Alternatively, you can just write an Upstart configuration file:
post-start script
#your script here
end scriptWe need an OS with declarative system directories, commands and configuration files based on a minimalist, human-friendly vocabulary and with good hardware support. It's 2013 and Linux is supposed to achieve some good abstraction levels that let people save time instead of reading fucking manuals. We should encourage good abstractions that document itself and communicates with the users. Linux systems don't talk English and they don't connect to real world easily.
Maintaining personal computers should not be expensive. If we're passionate about programming and systems, our goal should be to create good abstractions that connect to life.
For example, I find myself doing alot of work on REHL systems in the cloud, and thusly run Fedora (so I don't have to figure out where config files, etc. are kept in other distros).
For hardware firewall/security appliance, I use pfSense (a FreeBSD "distro").
I found myself gravitating towards RPM-based distros during that time.
I still laugh when my associates complain about their issues with CentOS, Ubuntu or Fedora - like not having latest versions or when some upgrade breaks things. Haven't had those issues since about 2007.
On the downside, I do have to maintain a few lines of shell script and a cronjob - and every now and then delete an email from root@calcium if there is a hiccup
Gentoo Binhost: http://praxis.edoceo.com/binhost
I have a debian wheezy server running a bunch of disks with zfs (from an ubuntu zfs-on-linux PPA), a jessie/sid desktop that is just awesome, a NAS (Western Digital Sharespace) running debian I installed via debbootstrap and a kernel I hacked together for it. There's also a debian netbook which is mostly retired now, and I have ubuntu on my chromebook, mostly because I'm not sure there's a debian release for it yet.
--edit-- I also use ubuntu at work at the moment. Regardless of the platform I like the XFCE environment, and ubuntu has made that quite pretty lately. Thankfully with a bit of theme downloading through apt, XFCE on debian can be made to look the same.
I wondered about VPS/cloud server distros people are using, but there's a great comment here with several good answers. Looks like quite a few are using some kind of VPS out there.
I was a huge Gentoo fan early on, but switched to Fedora when I stopped enjoying the USE configuration (which I still believe is awesome, just way too time-consuming), then to Ubuntu when I stopped enjoying yum (well, I never enjoyed yum). I think aptitude is the most stable package manager I've ever used.
Likely going to Debian soon, though. Trying it out in a VM (love those buggers!) It doesn't matter a whole lot since I run openbox, but as a developer, I think knowing the package manager well makes a big difference in the quality of the experience.
Arch just takes too much configuration and time, and the dual-head is a pain. It also doesn't support fglrx drivers, because the X version they use is too high. It's more of AMD's fault, not Arch's, but it still requires too much work.
In general, I like Arch's minimalism, and it uses very little RAM, but I am sick and tired of wrestling with it. Ubuntu has a completely different vision of what an operating system should be, and it's probably more suitable for general public (but probably not me). It always worked great out of the box, and Unity is not that bad (even through I prefer tiling WMs). I just don't like the technical direction Canonical is heading (MIR, upstart). I wish there was more input from the community in this kind of decisions.
Kudos to Mark Shuttleworth for having such a strong vision of what an OS/computer/smartphone should be like, and going through with making it a reality. It takes a lot of determination to not yield to the critics, and follow your ideals. I just think it would be better if Ubuntu contributed back to Desktop Linux ecosystem, and not re-invented the wheel.
Also, a lot of criticism of Ubuntu is minor details, and short-sighted. Ubuntu is one of the most rapidly changing distros/OSes, so a lot of things are going through major changes. This causes it to often be buggy, unstable and crash-prone, but in the end it improves at a much faster pace than other OSes. I believe once they polish it, and get some OEMs for phone and computers, they have a real chance of competing with Apple/iOS, Android and Windows.
Friends don't let friends use fglrx. The open source drivers work fine. If I can run Gnome-Shell while playing StarCraft 2, Left4dead 2 beta and team fortress on open source AMD drivers with acceptable performance then so can you.
I started in 1998 with Debian 2.0 and the dreadful dselect, went on to 2.1 and 2.2, and I was happy and in control.
Then at work they imposed me to use RedHat 5 to 9. A nightmarish experience of broken package dbs and way too much reinstalls. Only highlight was the awesome Ximian Gnome and Red Carpet, which lately more or less became the even more awesome Synaptic.
When Fedora came out, I was fed up with rpm and started my own little Gentoo (from Stage 0) revolution. So much fun! Everything was optimized and fast. Like Flash-fast! But after 2 wild years of emerges, my HDD went in pieces and I learned the dark side of continuous recompiling: the HDD suffers. So I felt again the debianist inside me and in 2005 installed the most natural evolution of Debian. It was stable, it had apt, it was up-to-date. It was Ubuntu 5.04 (Hoary Hedgehog).
Never looked back since.
Today I'm very happy with 13.04, but I'm also now starting to long for a MacBook Pro.
Because I'm older, wiser, and I need a laptop with top-class hardware and an OS that just works.
Happy to be off the MSFT train after 17 years!
There are some problems with Ubuntu. There are some political things about the benign dictator, and about contributing fixes, and about the direction it's going. These might not be at all important for you.
If you ever decide you want to leave Ubuntu you could chose Mint, which is popular (and they're doing interesting things). Mint should be as easy to use as Ubuntu. Or you could chose Fedora. The Fedora community is lovely! If you want to learn more about Linux and fancy a challenge you can try Arch. The Arch documentation is excellent, and is recommended reading even if you're not running Arch.
It's not so much that I don't care about the dictator/fixes/direction, but rather I'm not knowledgeable enough to know the significance. It's like an election where I'm not yet even capable of informing myself of the significance of the issues at hand.
Hopefully I'll be able to make an informed "vote" in the future.
First, it is a great distro for tinkering. I (obviously -- by my list) enjoy shaking things up and trying out new things, and Arch doesn't get in the way of doing so. Neither does Gentoo, but the compiling does get old after a while.
Second, I really enjoy the rolling-release system. It is nice to spend a few minutes every day updating the system to the latest & greatest rather than going through the 'big upgrade' every six months or so.
Finally, I feel like I'm the target market for Arch. OSX and Ubuntu are more general computing platforms. They are certainly usable, elegant, and outstrip my Arch/i3 setup for multimedia. But they don't scratch my particular itch. Arch does, and I don't think that's going to change anytime soon.
Maybe I'm just in love with a particular part of linux. Maybe its how I'm able to look at the innards of an OS and see how components of a system interact. Or maybe I'm in love with the puzzle in an enigma that is dependency management. I just don't know.
* Customizability / minimalism: Binary distributions usually come with tons of packages compiled with all kinds of bells and whistles, and often times make choices for you like what init system to use, what DE/WM to use, heck even what kernel to use. They are customizable to a degree, ie. you can install additional DE's after the fact, but not as much as Gentoo, which puts you in control of exactly what should be installed, and exactly what options to turn on. On a machine without bluetooth? Don't compile any bluetooth support into any libs/apps, not even in the kernel. Gentoo allows you to build a custom-tailored minimal software bundle for your exact hardware.
* Bleeding edge: Being a rolling release distribution, you get to experience the latest and greatest of open source software as it is being developed. Admittedly Gentoo has fallen behind lately on some areas due to not having as many active maintainers as it once used to, but for most areas it is still as bleeding edge as you can get (probably behind Arch overall). GNOME 3.8.2 became available the next day after its release, I'd say that is pretty bleeding edge.
* Documentation: The Gentoo forums and wiki are a great source of information for any general linux desktop (and server) issues. Arch has taken over in terms of having the majority of the mindshare, but I view both distributions' forums/wikis as the primary source of informed discussion on desktop linux topics.
* Speed: Not everyone is into -Oomg-optimized ricing, but for people who are, few other distributions will let you use custom CFLAGS all around and push your hardware truly to the limit.
Long live Gentoo!
The latest version of Fedora was a bit of a mess compared to previous versions, including things like bugs with waking up from sleep. Moreover, I'm finding the release schedule a bit slow. Also, I've heard good things about Arch and NixOS in terms of Haskell support.
Currently using Ubuntu with MATE (haven't bothered with Unity in quite a while, considering my experience with it in previous Ubuntu versions was quite underwhelming - might try it again someday) and - surprisingly - not missing Arch that much.
Work system is Fedora-XFCE, home system is Slackware.
Desktop is nearly always OS X, except for Windows for "toy" gaming use.
If you want to stick with Ubuntu and just remove unity, here are instructions for replacing it with Linux Mint's desktop interface (Cinnamon) and file manager (Nemo): http://askubuntu.com/questions/292394/how-to-completely-remo...
* Sabayon - It's a better experience than pure Gentoo
* SliTaz - You won't believe me how insanely fast it is!
* Peppermint OS - Perfect for mum and friends
Busybox Kernel, 35MB, but fully featured http://www.slitaz.org/en/Ubuntu based, but much faster and less distracting http://peppermintos.com/
The perfect OS for a developer/sysadmin who is thrilled for more http://sabayon.org/
I have tried my share of distros in the past [0], but haven't felt much need to go outside of Debian recently. Perhaps things have changed, but now I'm happy here :)
Ubuntu for the up-to-dateness (relative to debian) and stability. If I want something more up to date I can use a ppa if it exists, or pip, or compile. Mostly I take what's there and I'm fine.
LXDE for the minimalism. It's just windows and a panel, none of the Unity drama.
Canonical recently seems to be emphasizing Canonical (which is their right), so I'll likely go to Debian; LXDE will make the desktop part all but a non-event.
It's fine.
So now I plan to have OpenStack running on both the server in the office & on the laptop that has a KDE desktop on it, too. It'll be nice because I can take my Windows 7 VM with me when I take the laptop out.
devstack will work on Debian as well, although it is not officially supported.
I understand that taste is a very subjective thing and most folks will stick to things they're used to, but this was one thing I really couldn't get un-used to.
I've tried several times to use it as my main OS, but every time I keep coming back to Arch. The same is true with Ubuntu and other Ubuntu flavors, most recently Ubuntu Gnome, which is basically the same as what I run with Arch, but with an Ubuntu foundation and less time spent getting it working. Even that felt slow to me.