Colleges with the Worst Credit Ratings | Hacker News Reader

Colleges with the Worst Credit Ratings

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33 pointsmcarvin18 comments

A related anecdote: my alma mater, the College of William & Mary, was founded in 1693 (second only to Harvard, which was founded in 1636). As you'll generally find, the biggest indicator of endowment size is year of establishment: older schools, in the aggregate, have more alumni, more cachet, more everything.

W&M is a huge exception: despite our age, our endowment per student is only around $80.5K (compare this to Stanford's $342K or UVa's $239K).

Why is it so low? Because we took the side of the Confederacy in the American Civil War. We spent our entire endowment on confederate war bonds and the majority of the student body (being in Virginia) went to fight for the South. They converted the Wren Building -- the oldest academic building still in use in the U.S. -- to a barracks.

After the Civil War ended, Virginia was broke -- and W&M was even more so. They kept the college closed for eight more years until they had enough money simply to operate.

I was a grad student in CS there from 2003 - 2006. During faculty interviews, there was always a meet-and-greet with the grad students. During one of those, we realized that the candidate didn't know W&M is a public school. Most people outside of Virginia don't realize that, either.

If you graduated this year, then you're way too young to have been in any of the classes I TAed. That's startling for me to realize.

Saw your master's thesis -- if its any consolation, Kearns is still here, teaching Databases in flip flops.

Stanford is over $1m/student, and Harvard is at $1.5m/student. Yale is at $1.7m/student.

Wow, my numbers were way off. That emphasizes my point even further.

>>> my alma mater, the College of William & Mary, was founded in 1693 (second only to Harvard, which was founded in 1636)

Bah! ;-) My alma mater, the University of Edinburgh, was founded in 1583, yet is still young compared to Oxford and Cambridge.

However, even the oldest or 'best' universities in the UK have tiny endowments compared to their US counterparts:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_UK_universities_by_endo...

"older schools, in the aggregate, have more alumni,"

What would effectively be the difference in alumni between a college founded in 1693 and 1890 or even 1930 by that thinking?

A school founded in 1693 has a 200 year head start on alumni donations on the school founded in 1890. Living alumni are not the only ones whose money is in the endowment.

I'm not sure how recent the phenomnenon is, but many people bequeath much of their wealth to their university when they pass. 200 years of alumni, and in the case of many of the named schools, especially wealthy alumni can have a dramatic effect.

Compound interest. Many schools invest part of their endowment and use part for expenses. So older schools have a literally exponential advantage.

I attend University of Massachusetts "Anheuser-Busch". Should I be worried? They DO seem to be spending a lot, what with the enormous new lab science and academic classroom buildings, swank honors dorms, and library updates. Are they spending too much on us? Are we going to go bottom up next time the market crashes?

Also: For what it's worth, I'm not here to party, I'm here to learn. There are plenty more like me (and we would all make more than adequate additions to your development team...). And another thing: no one calls it UMass "Anheuser-Busch". It's "Zoo"mass. Sigh.

I wouldn't worry too much. UMass' Computer Science program is ranked very highly - comparable to Ivy League institutions. It's also the flagship public university in a state where higher ed is very, very important. Talking to Boston-area CS profs, I've heard that UMass is better than, say, Harvard for PhD students because the support provided to students is better.

In a financial crunch things can get uncomfortable, but UMass Amherst probably qualifies as too big to fail. And administrators are less likely to damage nationally-ranked departments then weaker parts of the university. For instance, after Katrina, Tulane killed off its CS and engineering departments (including civil engineering!) but kept areas where it was nationally ranked.

I also go to UMass Amherst, unfortunately, I partied too much for a comp sci major and might have failed out but I'm not worried I invested more time into javascript than java, it is nice to see a fellow classmate on HN!

Being only familiar with UMass Amherst via its not-insubstantial contributions to ML (specifically the work of McCallum & co), I was surprised to see it given such short shrift in this article.

"what with the enormous new lab science and academic classroom buildings, swank honors dorms"

That infrastructure investment is to make the school attractive to future students (you already are a student). Same as Starbucks will periodically renovate or a company might provide employee perks.

Many improvements are also done for parents on college visits to make the school seem attractive to them.

The federal IPEDS database collects mandatory reports from just about all colleges and universities in the United States, including many financial details. It's possible to queries on the federal database directly, but I'm grateful to the Education Trust for its user-friendly College Results website,

http://www.collegeresults.org/

which allows looking up a lot of details about colleges, including displaying information about colleges comparable to some college of interest.

http://www.collegeresults.org/search1b.aspx?institutionid=23...

(The link shown above compares the College of William and Mary in Virginia to colleges deemed similar to that college by characteristics chosen by the College Results editors. You can then use the various tabs, e.g., "Finance and Faculty" or "Admissions" to look up details about the colleges, sorting by each column as you wish.)

Colleges range from amply supplied with funds to struggling and in danger of going broke at any moment. It's a good idea to check out a college's finances before actually enrolling.

"It borrows money frequently to cover its operating costs like salaries of the professors, maintenance, maintaining the dormitories, making sure the library is stocked, and keeping the sports program in tip top shape."

When you borrow for operating costs, don't complain about bad credit... Borrow money for project that will hopefully drive more money home later. Pay operating costs with you income (hum, or your capital if you're starting, but this is a ticking bomb).

As a Georgetown alum, I am not even surprised. I have nothing to say about their bio program, but as a language major in one of their more reputed language faculties in a certain language, my best year was my year abroad and my senior year back made me contemplate why we spend so much money to stay.

Their CS department was also terrible in a big way, despite professors who were really good and tried hard for the intro classes.

Not a lot of details why Boise State is "Most Wasted Resources".

Also, Raptor Biology refers to the bird, not the dinosaur.

(Current BSU student.)

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