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Comment by onemorepassword | Hacker News Reader

> Just replace all the sexist jokes with gay jokes or sissy jokes or just about any other type of jokes men direct at one another to establish pecking orders within groups.

You may want to consider hanging out with a different crowd...

Also, this is not "hanging out", this is the workplace. Different standards should apply. Bullying and intimidation in the workplace is unacceptable for any reason, and in this case it's both bullying and sexism.

Yes, I know this is how certain groups of men behave. It also happens to be the same men who's jobs are in danger of permanently disappearing, and this is exactly one of the main reasons nobody gives a shit.

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By the sounds of the article this is British construction workers we are talking about. They have their own culture which is equally as strange as ours, they literally rip on each other all of the time.

They must find something to tease you about, whether it's being "gay" , your nationality or just the football team you follow.

Unfortunately in this case in the absence of anything else they chose to pick up on her being a woman.

That's not really much of a defence though, is it? British construction workers have decided for themselves which jokes are normal, which are funny, which jokes cross the line. Their tastes are biased in a very sexist way (probably more to do with subjective bias than actual misogyny, but still sexist in content).

Think about your list of things to joke about. If you're not a straight, masculine, white, English man then they joke about whatever makes you different. Which means sexist, homophobic or racist jokes. If you are a straight, masculine, white, English man, then, ha, ha, you like Manchester United. It's not ha, ha, your mum's got cancer, or ha, ha, you lost your wife in a car accident. No, hurtful jokes only get made to people who are different. People who are like the majority get made fun off for having different taste with regards being a sports fan.

Just because it's a tradition, and they don't mean it, doesn't mean it's okay.

They'd probably call you gay even if you weren't, whether or not you actually are is probably not that important to them.

You'd also probably get made fun of more for being say Irish or Scottish than for being black.

Whether or not it's "okay" it is not something you could reasonably expect to be changed for one person.

I would think that really her employer should have managed her expectations better.

Using "gay" as an insult is very problematic and homophobic.

Calling someone who is gay "gay" is generally not a problem. (Depending on context it obviously can be, but that's then more dependent on the context, not the word.)

The implication of calling someone who isn't "gay" is that being gay is somehow bad or something to be offended about. That is as clear a homophobic statement as there can be.

It is homophobic, by the way, even if the intent of the speaker isn't there.

Perhaps, but construction workers tend not to spend much time considering the implications of language in the way that people who are college educated might. So what you have is more a clash of the cultures than real homophobia.

The way I've always thought of the word "gay" being used in that way was not so much that it was bad to be gay (as in the sexuality) so much, but that you are associating the person with certain stereotypical gay traits such as effeminacy which would be somewhat insulting to a stereotypical macho construction worker.

As I already said, that's also sexist. Gender policing is not ok. (And you cannot ignore what gay usually means.)

That depends, if you are in an environment the person on the receiving end doesn't take offence and will happily give insults back then it doesn't really matter.

The difficulty is when you put people not used to that environment into it, the real issue is a conflict in expectations rather than the exact language used.

>You may want to consider hanging out with a different crowd...

And you may want to consider actually being more truthful about what you and your pals do do when you hang around.

(Not to mention the irony of 5 lines below, in your same comment, using language like "gives a shit").

>Also, this is not "hanging out", this is the workplace. Different standards should apply.

Only for puritan cultures, that hold a clear distinction between work and normal life/play.

>Yes, I know this is how certain groups of men behave. It also happens to be the same men who's jobs are in danger of permanently disappearing, and this is exactly one of the main reasons nobody gives a shit.

This sounds like a reason to actually "give a shit".

Not sure how you justify yourself, morally, to care (or pretend to care) about "sexism" and "male jokes" while at the same time "not giving a shit" about people being forced into unemployment.

I don't give a shit about sexist and homophobic neanderthals who need to put down, intimidate and bully other people to make themselves feel better.

And no, I truthfully don't hang out with such scum.

You seem to have a very twisted idea of what normal, civilized male behavior is.

>You seem to have a very twisted idea of what normal, civilized male behavior is.

Yes, it's "not giving a shit" about people forced into unemployment, and calling other people "scum" and "neanderthals" (after an extinct race of people -- might as well go full on and use the other n... word).

Swearing, holier-than-thou, casually racist remarks for whole classes of people (as if construction workers described in the article are "sexist and homophobic neanderthals" for making some comments between them in jest as 99.9% of the male population does, and one should "not give a shit" about them).

Way to prove your superior, non-sexist, caring and sensitive "civilized male behavior".

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