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Comment by stfu | Hacker News Reader

Do their employees snoop on US citizens? Nope.

I find it highly ironic that you are making this statement today. Today, where it came out that the IRS leaked confidential infos on one political group to their political enemies [1].

I have no idea how you can make such a statement. Is it just naivety or what are your intentions? If information "is there" it is going to be used. No matter how sophisticated the flagging system is, the data is not stored in some secret vault only accessible to the great inquisitor.

The recent IRS events clearly demonstrate that government institutions are absolutely unafraid to abuse available data for intimidation if necessary. These are no just a rogue employee stalking his ex, but actions on a targeted, ideological level. The only data that can not be abused is the data that does not exist.

[1] http://www.propublica.org/article/irs-office-that-targeted-t...

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> recent ... events demonstrate ... actions on a targeted, ideological level.

You say that like it is a new development. It is not.

This is not to give it a pass or say it's okay. Just pointing out that there is nothing in recent events that signals a significant departure from what has been happening since the last century and beyond.

Is that really a broken system or just a few bad apples?

Hopefully we can pinpoint the leaks, identify why they occurred, and develop safeguards to prevent abuses of highly confidential data in the future.

Send the assholes who used their government position for evil to prison and make THAT the top news story.

EDIT: The system will repeatedly be broken in an ever-changing environment. That doesn't mean that we should turn against our government as a whole. Patch the holes, prevent it from happening in the future, do our best to allow the right amount of transparency, and move on.

Its a broken system when that does not happen. So, I agree with you, its a broken system.

The problem is always bad apples taking advantage of the system. It feels like you're making the argument, "If you have nothing to hide, you shouldn't be worried."

just a few bad apples?

Yeah, 95% of them are making all the rest look bad.

"Is that really a broken system or just a few bad apples?"

The state was built to serve the interest of the general public and yet today does not produce the necessary signals to indicate it is functioning correctly to that purpose. We are experiencing asymmetric information:

* the state holds whatever privileged data it wishes for the length of time and purpose that it finds appropriate within the law and determines whether to reveal or withhold this data at present or some future date

* the state also determines the correct interpretation of the laws in court orders, position papers and executive orders -- and these orders can also be considered privileged data, so the same principle applies about whether to reveal or withhold this data from the public

* any indiscretions in the use of that privileged data by the state may or may or may not be detected by the state itself and, if detected and as it pertains to privileged information that may or may not be known to be held by the general public, the news of this detection and optional remediation may or may not be later revealed to the general public

* any successes by the state cannot be audited outside of the state itself, so the general public is reduced to the hope that the results were satisfactory and correct

Yes, I would argue that the current system is broken.

Anytime someone says, "...just a few bad apples" they show a complete misunderstanding of the roots of the saying.

The origin is that you should not let a few bad apples spoil a barrel, because if you pack a barrel of apples for the winter and leave a bad apple in it, it will spoil the barrel. Therefore any time you find a bad apple, INSPECT EVERYTHING CAREFULLY.

Today it has reversed meanings, "Oh just a couple of bad apples", and this version is almost always wrong. Where you've found one bad apple, there are likely to be more. Do not leap to make excuses, leap to investigate carefully. That is the healthy response.

As for spying, give people access, and incentives for accessing, and I guarantee that it will be abused. Oh, most Americans won't be targeted. But anyone running for office whose policies those in power don't like...?

Well said!

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