Introducing the Square Stand | Hacker News Reader

Introducing the Square Stand

squareup.com

86 pointsgoughjustin61 comments

The pricing makes very little sense to me...Square already sells Business in a Box for $250 with a cash drawer and $500 if you want a receipt printer. This stand costs six times as much as similar options (http://amzn.to/102UtKn) and the only real improvement is the long track.

If you've ever spent a day swiping credit cards with a Square reader, though, that long track will look mighty attractive...

The market for this: trendy premium SF coffee shops.

I assume the market is just people who are using homegrown versions of this, and $300 isn't that much for a nice upgrade.

Random details you may of missed:

"The integrated card reader keeps information secure from swipe to payment."

That means integrated encryption in to the stand. There are probably some other details. How to mount the thing to the table, how to connect devices.

Edit: disclaimer, former square here. Details matter.

So does that mean it's PCI compliant?

What an absolutely brilliant & simple move by Square. POS register systems are a huge, costly market and this is an incredibly attractive option, esp at that price - talk about disruption! Nice job guys!

I've already seen quite a few shops/bars using iPads as POS registers. This particular aspect is Square following with what's out there.

Not that Square isn't disruptive in other ways.

Groupon already does this and cheaper http://breadcrumb.groupon.com/

Groupon charges 1.8% + $0.15 per swipe for Visa/MC/D, Amex varies.

Square charges 2.75% + $0.00, so the transaction amount breakeven point is $15.80 and Groupon is cheaper for amounts > 15.80, but Square is cheaper for amounts < 15.80

A couple of things:

1.) The fact that Breadcrumb has a "Pro" option and requires me to schedule a demo, suggests that it's more of a complex system than Square.

2.) Breadcrumb looks to be targeted specifically toward restaurants.

3.) I bet Square will be around for a heck of a lot longer than Groupon will.

The updated link is https://upserve.com/platform/restaurant-pos/

(The old link does not redirect, and we got an email asking us to update it.)

That white clean look is going to start looking disgusting once it gets use in the real world. I see them imitating apple's design aesthetic, but they really should have learned from the white macbook - because this is going to be worse. Cash registers are already always dirty, because there's high transaction volume there - it's literally the bottleneck. Now it's white and pretty looking, so it'll draw your eye, which basically requires every business who gets the square stand to give it a good clean daily.

> requires every business who gets the square stand to give it a good clean daily

And this a bad thing? Cleanliness of retail stores especially food/beverage is quite a deciding factor for both new and returning customers I would imagine. To take you're point further though, which I think you may have implied, once a white macbook gets a scratch/stain, it's likely permanent and looks nasty. Let's hope they've chosen a resilient material for this stand atleast.

I'm not sure who this is for. Square originated as a simple way for individuals and very small businesses to take credit without a massive investment. Evidently, businesses also took interest in such a product.

However, a $300 kiosk is probably out of the realm of possibility for many one-man operations. At the same time, the business demographic to which they are appealing with this (larger established businesses that need a physically-integrated register solution) is already competed over by a plethora of companies.

The whole point of Square was to occupy the niche of hyper-small operations and forsake the market for large businesses. Not only are they competing with the established companies like Verafone, but also with the dozen or so other companies that target larger businesses with iPad register solutions. I'm not sure if they will be able to compete.

That's not to say that this will be unsuccessful. Obviously, Square has had some success in penetrating the large-business market. I don't know. Maybe Starbucks will buy 10,000 of them or something. It just seems like a more volatile and crowded market...

There are already a couple coffee shops and at least one fairly nice restaurant using iPads and Square this way in Boulder. I can see a lot of reasons why this could be an effective strategy, with benefits on all sides.

One thing though: while e-mailing myself receipts for business dinners is a nice-to-have feature, I am curious to know more about the privacy implications (probably wouldn't take but a moment to find out).

As a merchant who uses Square, I can say that the merchant does not have access to the e-mail address or SMS number that the receipt is sent to. That Square has access and will offer the customer the choice of using a previously used receipt destination, could be seen as a great convenience for repeat customers, or a privacy issue - you decide. For details, see:

https://squareup.com/legal/privacy

https://squareup.com/legal/seller-agreement

The Stand appears to be an entry in the niche of minimal POS (Point-of-Sale) setups, perhaps as an answer to an upgrade desire: "I like Square, but I need something more like a cash register."

It does seem to solve a security issue by tethering the iPad to the counter, which anyone whose phone has been stolen can readily appreciate.

I am surprised that the signature process is not done by tilting the device toward the customer and letting the screen display rotate. Perhaps Square is aiming more toward upscale retailers with great expanses of customer-facing counter space (who would also be more likely to pay the 2.75% transaction fee.) Perhaps the choice of white hardware is based on the same approach.

This. Is just sucker marketing to the 'cant afford a real POS system' and I don't mind giving-away for free (betraying) my customer-base for a cheap-assed alternative, merchants who can't be boned to read and comprehend the T&C.

Square = tracking/profiling of customers without their direct permission = scam-artists. Jack, please reply.

Doesn't green mean you're a mod? And you wrote this? :\

Green means they've recently registered

This explains a lot of misconceptions lately, haha, thanks.

What is your point exactly?

A BUNCH of small businesses with physical storefronts I frequent locally already use an iPad or iPhone with square as their PoS.

They do this DESPITE the inconvenience of using the standard plug-in square reader. DESPITE the technological know-how and inconvenience needed to hook up a receipt printer (they will email receipt to you ONLY, some customers don't like this, too bad).

Despite all those downsides, they do it cause Square's 2.9% is less than they get charged from other processors; and a typical PoS system costs so much more and is STILL crappy. They do it despite the other inconveniences.

So this is part of Square recognizing that they are in fact a hair's breadth away from taking over the small business physical storefront PoS market too, they just need to smooth down a few more edges.

They are "rounding the square," as Jack would put it.

I'm a bit surprised they went for that cheesy white plastic look. That seems like it would stand out in most retail stores. Stainless or black is much more appropriate.

A stand? That's not what they need to go mass market.

When I show people the square dongle on my phone, the first thing most people ask is... "OK, that's cool, but how can it accept cash"?

If their communication is not really simple & clear about how they can be a "total" solution for a small business (which yes, must also take cash + CC's), then they will not get to mass market. Having more hardware (which is far harder to scale than software) will not be the best path.

That said, I'm still impressed with Square, as it's very hard to compete in a non-level playing field with huge entrenched players (Visa/MC/AMEX + big POS players), and the ecosystem needs successful upstarts to freshen the ecosystem for consumers.

Do people really ask how the Square can accept cash? You don't need a square to accept cash.

If you'd like to keep all your transactions tracked in one place, Square needs to allow for non-credit transactions.

They do.

>If their communication is not really simple & clear about how they can be a "total" solution for a small business (which yes, must also take cash + CC's), then they will not get to mass market.

I'm not sure exactly how much clearer they can be. Scroll down the linked page, and they have a nice picture showing the Square Stand with a cash box and a receipt printer. Yes, they are add-ons, but nothing wrong with that and they do make it a complete solution for cheaper than a normal POS system.

I don't really get it, are they only using the magnetic strip and not the chip on the card?

Most cards in the US don't have a chip.

Why is this? If everyone else is using it to the degree that swiping is (quoted from another post) "ancient history", then why is the U.S. so behind?

I don't live in a big city, but I travel a fair amount across the U.S. I have never seen a chip reader.

Consumer paranoia (many claim chips/RFID is unsafe) in addition to outfitting millions of retailers. Chip readers is where Square should be, IMO.

strange, because copying or reading a chip is very hard (last time I heard about it it was with a electron microscope), where copying a strip can be done in the same swipe as the transaction. I think I have seen a card in Germany with a different pin for the strip and the chip.

It was forced in Europe and Canada by shifting liability for fraud on swipe transactions to the merchant. Chips are very effective at preventing point-of-sale fraud. Mastercard and Visa had not tried to push it in the US, but they are getting more active now. As of this year, their processors are required to support chip transactions. By 2015 they will start shifting liability for certain transactions to the merchant if a chip card isn't used.

Because it's a massive investment in replacing all POS hardware and cards for almost no gain (in fact, the customer experience is decidedly worse).

Worse? It's one extra step. Besides here in Australia the chip is already old tech. RFID is the new hotness. So much in fact it's killing the association that manages debit cards (EFTPOS)

In New Zealand it's certainly been worse - chip transactions consistently take 30+ seconds longer than swipe ones (ie. at least twice as long as the old way, just waiting around for the damn card reader)

Though the new Visa PayWave/MC PayPass tap-and-go stuff is really quick and super-easy, but not many merchants have it installed yet.

They are U.S./Canada only. The European equivalent (which does take EMV chip-and-pin) is iZettle https://www.izettle.com

Chip & pin is very common in Canada, and for good reason:

http://www.zimbio.com/Credit+Cards/articles/wqJ31IbmC13/New+...

(Visa & Mastercard are the biggest CC companies here. Hardly anyone has Amex, and Interac is a debit card thing that Square doesn't support.)

Ah, I hadn't realized that Canada had gotten with the game. So it's only the US alone which is lagging behind then, as usual :)

U.S. cards only have magnetic strips. It's possible there are some cards in the U.S. that have chips now, but point of sale systems don't generally use em, only the strip, yep.

How does it get power? Cord out through the bottom?

Cant see any cord or plug on the video. The Square Stand is just placed on the table with a cash drawer under it. The iPad runs on its battery, but it's not evident if the battery recharge is possible while using the Stand.

There's a power cable the plugs into the bottom of the unit - https://squareup.com/help/en-us/article/5114-square-stand-se....

The swivel and the ability to bolt it to the counter appear to be very well designed, but I would personally have a hard time dropping $300 on it after buying an iPad for $400 - $500.

So you swipe the card? I haven't seen a cash registry where you need to swipe in ages. I understand the cost implications but it seems really ancient not to use the chip.

I'm assuming you're not in the US. Swiping here is still very much the default. I've used the chip readers, but they appear on my statements with less information than a swipe, so now I avoid them, they give me no additional benefit

Swiping is quite rare in European countries which use chips and codes everywhere. This might be not the best concept for Europe, but I believe that in the US it works fine. Dorsey should come to demo it at Le Web to see how people will react to swiping.

I fail to see how the chip provides less information for a transaction to appear differently on a statement. Something is afoot.

Yeah, I don't see any reason why is wouldn't, either. But on my statement, the chip transactions I had didn't list the merchant name or category (this was with AMEX), just some gobbledygook terminal number and a generic "Withdrawl".

It could be the way the merchant was set up, or maybe it's not done that way anymore, but I still don't see the point at this time.

And where does it print the receipt? An emailed copy is not good enough, in fact it's far more inconvenient.

I haven't needed a printed receipt in years, I use Xero so even paying in cash with Square and getting an emailed receipt is a bonus instead of having to remember those 30 seconds to take a photo of it on my phone and log the amount.

According to the site, "Quickly and easily connect a receipt printer, kitchen printer, cash drawer, and barcode scanner. Get your hardware up and running in minutes."

So, I'd assume you print the receipt to a receipt printer that you connect to the stand.

So it is a $299 plastic ipad stand with about $5 worth of magstripe-reading tech attached. My point is that this is being represented as a 'register reinvented' when in fact you still have to add on all the things you listed that make a register.

Just making sure I'm seeing the same thing: A plastic stand with a long track reader. I have no idea how this is worth the cost.

I love how they integrated the Square logo into the design of the product.

$4.61 for a scoop of ice cream? No me gusta...

Please keep your pointless zero content replies on reddit.

Square should admit that their real purpose is to track the customer without their direct permission and sell the data to the highest bidder.

Square is for morons who love Facebook profiling coz it's free.

You're new to Hacker News, but you're encouraged to 'show your working' here along with your comment.

I welcome to see the data that Square is tracking purchases, and if it is, how is this any different to XYZ Supermarket's loyalty program/card, and how are they doing this without breaking any laws.

(Oh, and they've handled $15bn in transactions, sans Starbucks, I doubt they need the moolah!)

What do you mean by show I am working? Projects? Love to, how?

As for comparing Square to loyalty cards, I have to give actual consent to the card issuer, with Square, they track me as a customer without permission or consent just because the merchant has done a deal with them.

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