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Comment by untog | Hacker News Reader

Why do we associate attending an Ivy League institution as a 17 / 18 year old for an undergraduate education as some sort of metric for success?

Because, by all accounts, it is one of the most reliable indicators that the child is going to be successful.

but to consider one's parenting model as "working" at age 17 because one's child is going to Ivy league is hilariously short-sighted

Well, at some point you- as a parent- stop being responsible for your child's life. Many would argue that occurs when the child goes away to college and makes their own choices.

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> Because, by all accounts, it is one of the most reliable indicators that the child is going to be successful.

I don't know of any way to phrase this. What you said is profoundly stupid and factually incorrect, even if you judge success by salary alone:

http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/07/20/do-elite-colleg...

Your own link shows that 5 of the top 10 mid-career median salary schools are Ivy League schools. Only Brown (more arts-focused), Columbia (no clue why this isn't there), and Cornell (only Ivy with public ties, and the largest Ivy) aren't included.

From the parent:

> Because, by all accounts, it is one of the most reliable indicators that the child is going to be successful.

Clearly, it isn't. If it were, the only schools there would be Ivies. They are not.

> Because, by all accounts, it is one of the most reliable indicators that the child is going to be successful.

Successful as in working for a Fortune 500? Or successful as in growing up to be a self-suficient, happy human being?

suc·cess·ful

/səkˈsesfəl/

Adjective

1) Accomplishing an aim or purpose: "a successful attack on the town".

2) Having achieved popularity, profit, or distinction.

Attending an ivy league school fulfills both definitions, depending on why you went.

Oh good, someone brought out their dictionary.

I could be mistaken, but I do believe the answer to 'successful as in' refers to the definition of the word successful

> Because, by all accounts, it is one of the most reliable indicators that the child is going to be successful.

Happy ≠ successful. Which is more important?

successful. With the fruits of early success you can spend the remainder of your life figuring out what makes you happy, and it wont be limited to the things you can do in your home town for $10.

Hey, if you know the Path to True Happiness...well, quit hogging.

It's pretty easy...stop caring about success!

Attending an Ivy League school as an undergraduate is one of the most reliable indicators that a child is going to be successful?

Are you serious? A student of mine, who is not only exceedingly capable but also very pleasant, with many interests outside college (yes, he is a serious musician) applied to several Ivy League schools for his graduate degree but somehow none took him on. He is now going up to NYU, and he will enjoy it.

I think he will go far in life.

While your student may be headed for success, be aware of the the implications of using anecdotal evidence. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anecdotal_evidence

This is the wrong counter-argument, I think. Top schools get such a number of applicants that they have to turn away a fair number of qualified candidates, and once you are in and are not totally socially inept you can't help but make the connections that will get you set for life. Luck plays a great part at this stage, even though it's anathema to say.

If anyone wants to test the tiger-mother theory they should perhaps look at people who got into decent schools and follow up how they did.

untog didn't say that being successful and going to an Ivy League school are mutually inclusive. Untog said that attending an Ivy League school suggests the individual will be successful. This says nothing positive or negative about other schools.

Does mutually inclusive just mean the same? E.g. If A includes B and B includes A then A = B.

Mutually inclusive means: A implies B, therefor if A, then B.

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