Quotations Of The Dread Pirate Roberts, Founder Of Silk Road
forbes.com
forbes.com
This kind of cuts to my biggest problem with objectivists and anarchist-capitalists, no sense of time context or history.
"Let's abolish the government and all that stuff, it is bad and not natural", ignoring the fact that without the sort of government-structured society we've already made, they'd be in no position to have the wealth they are so afraid that taxes are going to "steal" and it works forward too in the sense that without the protections we take for granted from tax-sponsored government, they'd be robbed blind very quickly by those with the means and will to do it.
David writes for a mainstream audience which is assumed to have some familiarity with concepts of economics and property, but does not need to already be a libertarian. I feel he is the best representative of market anarchist thought.
"People who wish to live in a 'virtuous' society, surrounded by others who share their ideas of virtue, would be free to set up their own communities and to contract with each other so as to prevent the 'sinful' from buying or renting within them. Those who wished to live communally could set up their own communes. But nobody would have a right to force his way of life upon his neighbor."
I would also guess that the people you hire to protect your stuff would probably also accept payment to take other people's stuff so you would have a similar set of problems to medieval kings and their armies.
No one attacked your person so I don't really understand why you get personal here. As it's my policy to avoid such poisoned discussions I'm going to leave this sub thread.
I am not making this up.
Two problems:
1. If not enough people pay for a fire brigade, the fire brigade is complete shit even if I do pay for it, because I can't fund a brigade all on my own. (If you tell me to move, you've lost the argument.)
2. If my neighbor's house is on fire, I really, really want the fire to be put out even if my neighbor hasn't paid for the brigade. I do not want the brigade to wait until my house is burning. (If you tell me to move, you've lost the argument.)
3. If you tell me to move, you've lost the argument.
the police are not obligated to help you in the US, this has been the subject of at least 2 supreme court cases.
And I doubt OP was speaking about those times when the country is entirely on fire or the police department has been nuked. Rather, I think the point is that the police will do anything they reasonably can do to help.
Note the last two words (in parentheses). That's the point being made: There aren't enough police to guarantee everyone protection.
Then we're talking past each other. That isn't what the Supreme Court decisions were about at all.
Why should commerce be limited by national borders? This conversation lacks imagination.
While there are undoubtedly areas where the public sector can learn from private sector efficiency, I'd venture that there are some societal functions where the point of profit maximisation results in an inferior and inadequate service. Or - to look at it a different way - the public sector is the only provider incentivised to realise the positive externalities of that service. This might be the public benefit of putting out fires regardless of a person's payment status (stopping them spreading), the cumulative benefit of going about business safe from crime, the benefits of a healthy workforce, etc etc.
Using tax money to put on an event of that scale where there was effectively only one organisation with the resources to provide security services is bound to make that one organisation optimize for cost saving.
If you had only private sporting events then security companies and event organizers would eventually optimize to a state of security that best served the expectations of their customers.
I had never worked security before, nor have I science.
I don't like big government either, but replacing it with fairy tales doesn't seem very rational.
> Personally, I don’t think they [Bitcoin, Tor] can be effectively banned at this point. Iran and China, for example, are actively trying and failing.
That is, unfortunately, not quite true in regards to Tor. Iran has on multiple occasions done/tried out doing (turned it on, then off) traffic censorship that directly or indirectly very much affected Tor. [1] [2] True, Tor managed to roll out obfsfroxy et al., which they'd been already actively developing prior to that, but if e.g. Iran (again) attempted country-wise generic SSL censorship, that would hurt things. Tor's pluggable transports would perhaps be a response to that still, but Iran's gov't could move on to other things.With China it's even worse, as it seems there is custom software being used from within China to actively discover and censor out new Tor bridges (as in, a new one is used by someone, some minutes later another connection from China comes in to it, speaks Tor protocol, disconnects, and then the bridge is blocked.) [3]
This is just to make sure the information about these matters is out there. If anybody is interested in helping out Tor, the mailing lists [4] and research papers and code is out there. :) [5]
[1] https://blog.torproject.org/blog/update-internet-censorship-...
[2] https://blog.torproject.org/blog/iran-partially-blocks-encry... (more results via a simple search if interested.)
[3] https://blog.torproject.org/blog/knock-knock-knockin-bridges...
It's beyond obnoxious sometimes when some sites (not Forbes specifically) put just 1-3 paragraphs per page with one image so that each one is effectively a slide surrounded by ads. When I reach my limit of the "paged experience", I search for the printer friendly page.
Edit: Er... Looks like Forbes is redirecting to the full "paged experience" upon clicking. Oh well. Just scroll to the bottom and click "print".
Ignoring the dubious ethics of running a black market, SilkRoad is ultimately a rent-seeking enterprise making money from transactional frictions. It creates no value - hardly the sort of shining beacon of enterprise the founder(s) make it out to be.
He's a pioneer. When SR has strange technical problems, he can't just jump on IRC or Stack Overflow and ask. He has to deal with attacks against Tor no one else has experienced. I don't know of anyone else betting more heavily on the security of Tor (at least the hidden service aspect).
He's also just plain inspiring. He had a bold idea, coded it up, kept it working, by himself or with a small group, despite opposition by the worst possible adversaries. He puts his life on the line for his principles. If the world had more brave and highly capable people like him, we might not still be in the drug war.
"In public choice theory, rent-seeking is an attempt to obtain economic rent by manipulating the social or political environment in which economic activities occur, rather than by creating new wealth. One example is spending money on political lobbying in order to be given a share of wealth that has already been created."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rent-seeking
A black market - almost by definition - is one in which the players are cut off from the channels of official lobbying or patronage that make rent-seeking a viable economic strategy.
That's not to say that a dark symbiosis can't develop between black marketeers and legitimate authorities. For instance, the police, by enforcing laws against drug trafficking, increase the risks of trafficking. This increases prices and profits alike. High profits attract a constant supply of traffickers, who also tend to be far more ruthless than the average businessman, which brings additional layers of criminality to the trade, thereby ensuring continued employment for the police - to say nothing of an unsettling expansion of their powers.
But at no point do the traffickers and the police feel a mutual need to formalize this relationship, since public opinion remains, on balance, opposed to the narcotics trade. That is to say, the police can rely on the ballot box to stay employed, stripping them of any incentive to do business (at least on an open, institutional level) with traffickers. Meanwhile, the traffickers can count on public opinion to keep police on the beat, and need not go to any further expense to keep their racket going.
Contrast all this with the retroactive extension of copyright terms which has got to be the canonical example of true rent seeking, illuminating the practice in its most naked and unproductive form.
EDIT: An more germane example is the lobbying done by pharmaceutical companies with an interest in keeping the law and public opinion in opposition to illegal substances that may have pharmacological properties. Because these substances are too well known to be patented, their legalization could lead to patent-free formulations that reduce demand for patentable substitutes that pharmaceutical companies have created, or ones they could develop in future. Blocking the legal use of one widely and cheaply available substance to create a market for a more expensive but conceivably inferior alternate is a text-book case of rent seeking.
You don't need a formal agreement or specific legislation to establish a rent-seeking economy, nor is economic patronage necessary. A black market is not somehow separate to rent-seeking business.
I'm also unsure why you think SR "creates no value"? It creates value in the same way eBay does.
Smuggling illegal immigrants is not rent seeking. If an illegal-immigrant-smuggling company lobbied the government to tighten immigration controls, that would be rent seeking.
They need not lobby directly for these restrictions, they have other organisations that will do that for them.
Silk Road is using technological advancement to remove as much friction from the process as possible, but it's obviously still non-zero, just like any market in the world.
It's like saying a road has no value because stuff isn't created on the road, just moved.
As for ethics, you could sleep better after buying a kilo of coke on silk road than paying your taxes.
It's funny how I keep getting charged to drive on certain roads that provide a better service than certain other roads.
[1]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_highways_in_the_United_...
And I see a lot of businesses selling stuff like 3d printers who use open designs and contribute changes back to the community. Lock-in is a choice people make.
It would be useful for busting buyers, but no more so than traditional cop-on-the-street sting operations.
I have no one to share my thoughts with in physical space. Security does not permit it, so thanks for listening. I hope my words can be an inspiration just as I am given so much by everyone here."
Definitely a cop.
He and his team are specialists. They are to cops what the Navy Seals or Rangers are to an Army E1.
The primary goal is information. They could care less about busting any given small time vendor. They want a mapping of the network of trade, origination, distribution, communication, transactions and financing. Particularly to draw currently unknown or difficult to track network nodes out into the open.
It's the same thing that has been done with paedophilia online. It's a honey trap. There isn't much value in busting single nodes. They want to see how much of the network they can map out, and the leads it provides to larger players. If this concept didn't exist, they'd desperately want to create it. Given their history of creative honey pots and how long they've been leveraging technology heavily, I think it tilts Silk Road toward being a likely sponsored program.
Any other examples? Sounds like fascinating reading.
I would also speculate that any of the big drug traders are very clever business people. They are used to switching their modes of operation, diversifying and building different routes and layers into their operation.
1. How do you map the network if they are using Tor?
2. Just the idea of Silk Road is more dangerous to the powers that be than any drug networks.
3. It can not be called law enforcement if it does not go through the chain of command, which it most certainly cannot.
Not sure if it helps, but there's been that ``Revealing Hidden Services by their Clock Skew'' [1] 2006 paper, and some other stuff linked to from [2].
[1] http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~sjm217/papers/ccs06hotornot.pdf
[2] http://www.lightbluetouchpaper.org/2006/09/04/hot-or-not-rev...
There are also techniques which may allow tor users to be deanonymized to vary degrees. Browser/OS fingerprinting , flash cookies etc. These will be easier if you control one of the end points.
I've never used silk road, but presumably if you want people to ship stuff to you , then you have to enter an address at some point?
If you control the mechanism for key exchange would this not make MITM possible? Display different keys to different people for the same person.
From the webpage I linked, "Security-wise, Silk Road seems to be receiving passing grades from law enforcement agencies internally; a leaked FBI report mentioned no attacks against SR, anonymous anecdotes claim the DEA is stymied4, while a May 2012 Australian document reportedly praised the security of vendor packaging and general site security."
Right now a buyer's address is vulnerable if they don't use PGP when giving it to a seller, or if SR is indeed trying to do a MitM attack by replacing a seller's published public key with their own. But the latter case is easy for a seller to check against simply by creating a second buyer account and verifying the buyer sees the correct key. The buyer and seller can also arrange to exchange keys off of SR. A better plan (also mentioned on Gwern's page) would be to have law enforcement create their own buyer and seller accounts and act like normal users until it was time to start a crackdown -- the problem seems to be that law enforcement, or at least the FBI, either doesn't have permission to engage in mass entrapment and fraud, or it's just not interested in buyers.
The best way to map a drug network is to become a real part of it.
I can certainly imagine there is value in controlling something like SR as part of a larger investigation.
In addition to TBB foiling all of those tactics, the only one that can done without being traced is fingerprinting. So if any of the others were being used, someone would probably have noticed.
2) Not if the powers that be control it, as they so often do
"It’s paradoxical, but the less you focus on your own happiness and focus on others’, the happier you’ll be."
John Galt indeed.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarianism_and_Objectivism
I have a soft spot in my heart for Ayn Rand, but her moral system would be a poor foundation for a free people (which I am here using as a euphemism for market anarchy).
Would anybody other than a Brit say that sentence?
[edit] Although I notice a lot of American English spelling in there too.
You mean like somebody who tried to deliberately obscure his identity by using fake clues?
Interestingly, and coincidentally, there's been speculation that the Bitcoin creator (Satoshi Nakamoto) could be an Irish computer science student called Michael Clear, due to British spelling in his (if it is his) written work: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Satoshi_Nakamoto
If I wanted to anonymize my writing, I'd use translation services. Perhaps French -> English -> Pirate.
If I were running Silk Road, I'd be paying attention to research and memes surrounding anonymity, and writing style has been a popular point of interest lately. Adopting another culture's colloquialisms and idioms is one potential way of masking your own identifying idiosyncrasies in writing.
Silk Road itself doesn't even have a discrete place for users to enter their public key; it is only by convention that most vendors put it at the end of their profile text.
*edit for clarity
What "realities of the drug trade"? Any drug sales happening on TSR are by small-time manufacturers and dealers. There are no shootings or stabbings on TSR. The cartels don't have any reason to use TSR. I think the nature of TSR prevents most of the "realities" you're citing.
Perhaps one day western societies will be able to have an adult conversation about drugs, but for the time being shrill reactionaries still set the tone. Meanwhile for every one dramatic walking-cliche of a drug casualty out there killing themselves and making the world shittier, there are at least a handful of responsible drug users conducting perfectly normal and successful lives. For any drug you can name.
"Irresponsible drug manufacturing"? If you're imagining that SR is a cesspool of tainted products, you could not be further from the reality of it. On SR, buying communities for specific drugs or drug subtypes tend to band together to discuss and assess vendors and their products quite publicly. In some cases, you see users subjecting vendors' products to lab tests (in countries where it's actually easy and legal to, god forbid, quantify the exact composition of illegal drugs). It's nowhere near as easy to get away with selling tainted garbage in this venue as it is on the street. There are typically far fewer unscrupulous operators standing between buyer and the actual supplier on SR, and consequently product quality is higher than most buyers likely have access to IRL.
> sooner or later be ruled by the ones who can produce the best product for the cheapest price at a high enough volume
..and? If the guy who can produce untainted, good-quality product at the cheapest price wins (which he won't, as there are any number of other factors that people involve in their buying decisions), then why would that be a problem?
Also I don't think its hand-waving when I base my opinions on the available information. I'm all ears if you can show that drug production has significantly changed (or at least what's is available on SR), that there's a significant overlap, and shift, between buying on SR and buying from street gangs and that this new distribution channel won't have largely the same victors, and therefor problems, as the rest of the drug trade.
Like I said, if someone comes up with a way to locally manufacture smaller amounts of drugs and give the control to the users, than you might have a theoretical case.
There's lots of reasons to believe the Silk Road is real, but most of them are just assertions from mostly anonymous people.