Parental benefits and paternity leave in Norway

For reference, in Sweden:

* Father gets 10 days of "just had a baby" paid leave, at ~80% of normal pay

* 480 days of paid leave. Of these,390 are at ~80% pay, and 90 are at a fixed (low) compensation.

* Of the 480 days, 60 are reserved for each parent, non-transferable.

* Each parent is allowed by law to work 75% of full time until child turns 7, employer cannot refuse.

* If you adopt, you have basically the same benefits as after a birth.

In all cases "paid" means paid by the government, i.e. taxes.

The ~80% has a maximum, so you get at most ~80% of ~35000 SEK per month.

Sweden is up there with the other Scandinavian countries as well.

Sweden will even give the parental leave RETROACTIVELY to immigrants that are moving to Sweden after the child is born but is not yet 7 years old. So if you move to Sweden with 3-4 kids, the mother (or father) can stay at home several years - with pay. An immigrant to Sweden with 3 children will receive 20.000 SEK per month [~3000 USD] for staying at home, taking care of her kids. [Source: http://fmalm.blogspot.se/2012/09/vandringshistoria-pa-natet-...]

Now do you see why Sweden has the world's highest taxes?

I live in Oslo, Norway. I became a father for the fourth time just two weeks ago, and I am really looking forward to spend at least 3 months at home with my new born son. But when my two kids from a previous marriage was born in the mid 1994 and 1996, I did not have any paternity leave at all. I could have stayed home with my small kids, but I didn't. Things have changed. My then wife wanted to stay home with the kids longer. The number of weeks designated for the father has increased since then. Also the culture has changed. Now it's a lot more common to see fathers with strollers.

Besides all kids are guaranteed a place in child daycare from the age of 1. The number of active women working in norway is just as important for the economy as the huge oil reserves.

Similar in Germany, although it was introduced only recently. We got 14 months in total, which we split 12 months + 2months. It's also possible to stretch the parental leave into a longer time of subsidized part-time. One of my bosses is doing that right now.

However, the system is designed for salaried employees. If you're self-employed, your parental leave benefits are based on whatever bills your customers chose to pay in the 12 months before birth (but hearsay).

labour conditions are a tricky sort of a topic and I think the lens of liberal economics vs socialist-labour economics hides some important perspectives.

Our politicians have a serious roles as leaders. It's intertwined but (IMO) still distinct from their role as legislators

Most leaders in history and outside of the "western" liberal democracy tradition place a huge emphasis on cultural leadership. The King/shah/cesar/great leader represents the ideal citizen. They don't just make laws, they make values. In Europe, you can still see this concept in the vestigial monarchies. In The States, it's present in the idea of a first family (sounds similar to "first citizen," the title of Roman Emperors.

To those of us that grow up in modern democracies, it seems hockey, cultish and dangerous to think of political leaders as paternal figures. We make a point of being critical of our leaders and react to attempts at deification as paths to tyranny - a way of maintaining power. That's probably a good attitude and keeps us safe from tyrants to an extent, but the role of political leader as cultural leader is so embedded in human political structures everywhere that I think it must have some fundamental role that's hard to do without.

Anyway, labour laws do seem to be capable of creating moral/social norms more effectively than say drug laws or tax laws. Our attitudes to discrimination, sexual harassment (or sexualization generally), bullying and other things are distinctly different in a work environment. These cultural elements evolved fast and I'm pretty sure legislation/ors have played a big role.

An employer paying under minimum wage, denying a woman maternity leave or only hiring attractive young women is not just breaking the law, he's an arsehole. He's abusing his role as employer.

Manufacturing, codifying and maintaining cultural norms in parliaments seems to work exceptionally well in the labour laws space.

Finland also offers 11 weeks of leave for fathers. I guess most Nordic countries are liberal in giving leaves compared to other countries in the world.

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http://www.kela.fi/web/en/paternal-leave

In Estonia the leave is 100% salary for 1.5 years (78 weeks) for one parent (either the mother or father). However there is a cap on the maximum salary the government will pay, so if the parent is earning a lot they will be taking a pay cut.

I actually think it's quite a good system, to encourage parents to have children.

It's funny how something as ancient as 8 weeks of paternity leave is considered revolutionary. Are people that unaware?

In Czech Republic the mother have 28 weeks of paid leave (starting usually 6 weeks before the child is born. After this time one parent (no matter of gender) can take parental leave, which can't be refused by employer and he have to give your job back after the leave ends, until the youngest kid have less than three years. This additional parental leave is paid by government.

I'm ok with one or more of: 1a) Minimal required parental benefits, people make their own plans and decisions 1b) Companies competing based on offering the right mix of parental benefits 2) Government provided subsidies for childbearing or whatever to compensate for the costs (paid out of taxes)

The one thing I find unacceptable is 3) government mandates that employers provide generous childcare/maternity/paternity benefits, paid by the company (either cash costs, or costs like not being able to replace the worker or job).

The problem with generous mandatory benefits paid by the employer is that some employers, which attract a lot of childwanting workers, will be relatively penalized, and some employers will be incented to discriminate in hiring. Then you have to add all kinds of anti-discrimination laws too, which causes deadweight losses.

California is borderline 3. The US as a whole is 1a/1b. Some of the states of Europe are 2, some are 3, and I think some are 1a/1b.

Incentives matter.

Statutory maternity leave in Spain is currently 16 weeks’ paid leave from work, of which six weeks must be taken after the birth. To qualify for this, the woman must have been registered with the social security office and made contributions for at least 180 days during the five years before the birth of the child. The mother also has the right to take one year unpaid leave after the maternity leave.

Fathers are entitled to 15 days’ paternity leave (depending on their job). In 2015 this will increase to 30 days. If there are complications for either the baby or the mother, the father is entitled to a longer period of leave.

core reason for this is the aging population of course. most of western europe is shrinking, so measures like this are meant to get people to procreate.

not needed in the US as it has population growth through a still massive influx immigrants. also a lot of poorer people who traditionnally create more children.

wealthy, educated, non-religious populations tend to stop having kids. scandinavia being a prime example. if there is no need, kids are a pure hassle if you don't really want them. turns out a lot of people don't.

So how does this work for entrepreneurs? Do they also get a free allowance for their first year?

...it feels like this was submitted in response to something. Could someone link that, if it exists?

Norway has lots of oil. Therefore I don't think "see, it works in Norway" is a good argument. That said, if you can finance it, why not?