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Comment by eksith | Hacker News Reader

The labor disparity between senior workers and young ones will lead to a lot more trouble. Irrational people take out their frustrations on the easiest target; irrational young people even more so.

I'm not sure if the article's doom and gloom is actually reflected in reality though. Most people are averse to letting society collapse (especially when they've had a history of it standing upright and stable for a long time).

Spain doesn't "just" need stimulus, it needs well guided and allocated stimulus or it will accomplish nothing.

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>Spain doesn't "just" need stimulus, it needs well guided and allocated stimulus or it will accomplish nothing.

The last thing Spain needs is "stimulus". What they need to do is fix the labor market so it's possible to fire people. When employers can't fire people they only hire as an absolute last resort. That means companies can't exploit growth opportunities as easily and it means employers are unlikely to gamble on people who don't have a solid resume, i.e. young people.

It's not like that anymore. Some agressive reforms have been done in the last years and they didn't help much.

Nope. all those "reforms" were cosmetics. As long as public workers cannot be fired -which they cannot be, de facto (show me one)- there is NO reform in Spain. Really.

And firing people is as expensive as it used to be, more or less. This govt has done really nothing relevant in this area.

Firing costs in Spain are lower than in Germany: http://www.tradingeconomics.com/spain/firing-cost-weeks-of-w...

http://www.tradingeconomics.com/germany/firing-cost-weeks-of...

Spain needs to breed. Their median age is ~41 (US at about 37... ). Not as bad as Japan, but very ominous when you've got a society built on pensions.

Ireland is about 35 and it shows (little pale kiddies running around everywhere). That is the only one of the PIIGS I'm betting on.

That might be the long-term solution to the nation's problems. But on an individual level, it would be disastrous for an unemployed person or someone worried about losing their job to increase their financial responsibilities by having kids.

Yes and No

In societies of extreme poverty children have long been viewed a hedge against old age

That only works because of the lack of child labor laws and the lack of an advanced economy in which education is required in order to get a well-paying job in countries where extreme poverty is commonplace.

You didn't read parent right: the child will be an adult when the parents are older. The more kids you have, the more likely at least one will be successful enough as an adult to take care of you.

No, I read the parent just fine. The child may be an adult when the parents are older, but that means nothing when the adults are bankrupted trying to give the child an education so that he/she can support the parents, and the child can't work until he's an adult anyway.

Of course the probability will be higher with more children, but the cost of having more children in a developed country far outweighs the benefits.

There's a huge difference in the results when you do it in a developing country and when you do it in Spain.

Just to make it clear: Spain, and the rest of Southern Europe are developed countries with high standards of living; extreme poverty is not even a prospect now.

Spain's youth unemployment is astronomical (55%+). Young people with useful skills are increasing choosing to emigrate -- With lots of encouragement too. e.g. Germany is actively recruiting Spanish Engineers to fill labour gaps there.

Without structural changes, no amount of youth is going to dig them out.

Yes, and in recent years Spaniards have been immigrating to South America to take incredible cuts in pay to do jobs (Often regardless of legal status) that require few of the qualifications, if any, they had earned in Spain.

How is this comment related to parent?

As long as we are wildly off topic, a lot of young people in Japan are "encouraged" to move to Bangkok to do Japanese customer service jobs, where they can be paid less.

Germanys is 42 and they are doing fine, its a longterm issue though.

Theyd need something like germanies dual education system that has classic University/College Education plus on the Job apprenticeships were companies train young People for several years. These companies get some Financial benefits and the young get excellent job training plus a low income during that time. Afterwards they are qualified to tackle the more senior jobs. Of course this is a long term process as well, seems already too late.

There already is a dual education system. It's called Formación Profesional. Includes on the job apprenticeships, plus a "senior" track, or qualification to college.

Was any part of the above comment offensive? I'm a little perplexed as to why I've been (I assume) banned...

I personally don't find my observation about Ireland's large population of pale children particularly offensive. I happen to be pale and half-Irish myself (mom from Cork), as well as married to a pale Irish girl.

As for statistics to back up my claim that Ireland is a good bet relative to the remaining PIIGS, here is the % of population under 18 (from 2007, http://childrensdatabase.ie/sonc2008/part1/): Ireland: 24.4 Italy: 17.1 Spain: 17.5 Greece: 17.4 Portugal: 18.7

Regardless, if I offended anyone, I apologize.

I still think youth is a strong sign of a resilient economy. True, Germany doesn't seem to be effected...I'd argue there are other issues there (a phenomenal capital market, for a start).

Was any part of the above comment offensive?

Yes, in the sense that no matter what you post, if there's any substance to your point at all, someone will be offended by it. Don't sweat it.

(You're not hellbanned as of this post, if that's what you're wondering.)

I somehow got an IP ban. That was annoying.

I feel you on this but the youth that are at breeding age are not going to really be down for that when they can't find work.

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